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Old 10-11-2010, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Baton Rouge
1,734 posts, read 5,178,073 times
Reputation: 655

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA View Post
MetroBTR,
It's not about being racist or anything in particular. Thing is you can't generalize a group of people based on certain segment of them no matter how big or small that percentage. You can only generalize that segment and even then you won't get an accurate picture. That is what I am referring to in my post

Just going from what you said it's easy to assume that you shouldn't be any more safer around the lower class whites in BR than you would the low class blacks, nor should you be any less safe around middle class blacks than middle class whites. By your own admission the lower class individuals are the main problem. The demographic situation isn't an excuse because the social climate of BR doesn't necessarily apply to people in the next city and so on.

I've always heard that Baton Rouge social situation was a little testy, I personally haven't spent enough time there to fully judge it myself; but I had no idea that it was that polarized. I also have to ask what is going on in these middle class neighborhoods that give the lower classes access to move in??
Personally I feel like you are trying to take me and my point of view (whatever your interpretation of it may be) and make it into something it isn't. You are tyring to find a certain type of argument where there is none. And I'm not sure where you are getting all these self admissions and such. My position stands on all fronts.

If numerous weather broadcasts predict that there is a 90% chance of rain for a certain city, can you not generalize that it will likely be a rainy day?

If a person has 3rd degree burns to 80% of his body, can you not generalize that he is severly burned?

If 75% of students in a school consistently score below the 10th percentile on a standardized test, can you not generalize that the school underperforms?

If there a city of 100,000 people is bisected in halves by a railroad track, and >90% of murders and other violent crimes occur on one side of the track every year, is it not plain as day which side of the city is safer? This would mean that <10% of violent crime occurs on the other side, but can you say that you are equally at risk of being a victim on both sides? No, you cannot. It is plain and simple, and I know you are intelligent enough to see that.

Statistics and percentages are definitely not meaningless.

By describing the social climate of Baton Rouge as polarized, it shows me that you have already formulated an opinion of the city.

What is happening in middle class neighborhoods that recieve an influx of middle class blacks? I think that you think you already know the answer.

Last edited by MetroBTR; 10-11-2010 at 10:14 PM..
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Old 10-11-2010, 10:19 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, United States
4,230 posts, read 9,390,578 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroBTR View Post
Personally I feel like you are trying to take me and my point of view and make it into something it isn't. You are tyring to find an argument where there is none. And I'm not sure where you are getting all these self admissions and such. My position stands on all fronts.
I'm not making your point into anything and I'm not looking for an argument. What you said is what you said. I told you why I disagree and that's it. How you take it is all on you. It seems to me that you took offense with my original opinion and possibly took it personally.

Quote:
If numerous weather broadcasts predict that there is a 90% chance of rain for a certain city, can you not generalize that it will be a rainy day?
Until it actually rains I can't do anything because there's still a 10% chance that it won't and with South Louisiana weather outside of the summer it has been known to happen.

Quote:
If a person has 3rd degree burns to 80% of his body, can you not generalize that he is severly burned?
3rd degree burns are officially accepted as severe burns. It wouldn't be a generalization.

Quote:
If 75% of students in a school consistently score below the 10th percentile on a standardized, can you not generalize that the school underperforms?
Actually it wouldn't be a generalization because the school is under performing compared to where it should be. As far as the actual students you can't generalize because 25% of them are still scoring higher. There's an underlying issue that needs to be addressed in that case.

Quote:
If there a city of 100,000 people is bisected in halves by a railroad track, and >90% of murders and other violent crimes occur on one side of the track every year, is it not plain as day which side of the city is safer? This would mean that <10% of violent crime occurs on the other side, but can you say that you are equally at risk of being a victim on both sides? No, you cannot. It is plain and simple, and I know you are intelligent enough to see that.
That's obvious. Saying I'm not safe on that side of the tracks is not the same as saying I'm not safe around blacks even if below the tracks is 100% black. What happens below the tracks does not represent everyone that lives below them nor does it represent that as a whole.

Quote:
Statistics and percentages are definitely not meaningless.
They aren't meaningless and they carry some truth, but they tell the who and what and not the why and how.

Quote:
By describing the social climate of Baton Rouge as polarized, it shows me that you have already formulated an opinion of the city.
Well going from what you said, it's obviously divided into extremes more than any place I've been except maybe parts of MS, AL, and GA.

Quote:
What is happening in middle class neighborhoods that recieve an influx of middle class blacks? I think that you think you already know the answer.
I was curious to see what you thought.
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Old 10-12-2010, 02:06 AM
 
Location: New Orleans, United States
4,230 posts, read 9,390,578 times
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Look, this is what I'm saying and I have said. "I hate to hear people of any ethnicity make the comment 'I'm safer around white people than I am black people'."

By that I'm saying that's a very blanket statement to throw out regardless of where you live and the setting there. That's extremely broad. That statement reads exactly how it looks and it puts every single black and white person in a box.

As far as the comment about Baton Rouge. I don't live there, never have, I don't intend on it and therefore I don't know what goes on there. My perception of it is only based of what I've seen while there and even then I'm not going to say something that speaks for Baton Rouge or the people of Baton Rouge as a whole, because I don't know Baton Rouge as a whole. Now, Baton Rouge has a percieved reputation for its "racial tension" among other things in this area.]. Am I stupid enough to say oh well everyone in Baton Rouge is racist and so on? No, especially when it's coming from people that don't even live there. Take the Louisiana forum here for example. Just read some of the threads, you're most likely to find the racial undertones and "hints" in the Baton Rouge forum. The discussion in this thread didn't center on racial problems until it was sparked by a poster(s) from Baton Rouge. Does that mean that this forum speaks for all of Baton Rouge? No. You just said not too long ago that "Just so happens that the primarily black neighborhoods in Baton Rouge that you would consider anywhere even approaching middle class (which are almost non-existant, break-ins are and suspicious activity are common. They have to form crime-prevention districts and PAY for private security patrols and the neighborhoods remain marginal and are a haven for property crime and theft... The lowest class of whites in BR live in black neighborhoods and have adopted lower-class black culture. There are no substantial neighborhoods of 75%+ "lower class" white in BR that I know of. Unless you count drunk college students on Jennifer Jean Drive or in Tigerland. In these areas, college students are more often the targets of crime than they are the perps." That shows a large socioeconomic disparity and polarization between race and social class. That's not a generalization if what you say is fact, but somebody could take all of what I pointed out and make a gross generalization about your city, but they would be no better than the type of people that I originally referred to. That wouldn't be fair, every city has its share of problems (some more than others) just like groups of people.

I don't know how you interpreted my opinion as me twisting your words and trying to make an argument. I'm only restating my opinion that people shouldn't generalize.

I didn't make this thread with the intention of discussing what race is dangerous and what group of people is better and definitely not about why the Civil Rights Movement shouldn't have happened, but whatever. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
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Old 10-12-2010, 10:26 AM
 
53,149 posts, read 48,402,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA View Post
I lived on the Westbank in Jefferson Parish for a short time. The first 6-7 blocks adjacent to where I lived were predominantly lower class Whites, Hispanics, and Asians while the 5 blocks in the other direction were middle class blacks, whites, and asians. There were decent people in that area, I befriended a couple, but there were just as many drug and crime problems there as anywhere else. It wasn't uncommon to see White dealers peddling crack, marijuana, pills, heroin or whatever else to strung out Vietnamese and Hispanics at the local corner store or in boarded up homes. There were instances of women beaten in the middle of the street, people robbed and stole from one another (usually everyone knew who did what) and everything else imaginable except murder. Some of the homes had disgusting lots full of trash and rusted junk. On the other side of the expressway there was a predominately black lower class area which was nearly identical. I believe someone was killed back there once, but outside of that it's the same exact thing with an extra dose of melanin. For some reason the Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Office as well as Code Enforcement focused most of their energy on the area across the expressway. The people from the middle class area often complained, but JPSO would only send a car to ride through and maybe give someone a warning. Go across the expressway and you see flashing lights and people handcuffed on porches with their legs crossed. Marijuana plants found in a home across expressway gets an entire segment from WWL about crime and changing demographics in Jefferson Parish. A lady on our side of the expressway blew herself nearly in two taking a good chunk of the house with her trying to cook crack, meth or something and it barely got a 3 second spot on WGNO.

It is what it is.
The stuff being cooked was most likely meth. I live in Cobb County, northern Cobb County specifically. North of where I live is Bartow County. Just 30 to 40 minutes away from Atlanta you have meth problems up there. It gets worse the further north you go.

In Kennesaw, where I live now, there are three recorded murders this year. All of them committed by a White male, most likely between the age of 50 to 60. The cause was a workplace shooting a Penske Truck rental, just about half a mile from Kennesaw State University. The shooting took place while I was in class. This happened right before the earthquake in Haiti. I wasn't too shocked about it because I figured if it could happen in Littleton,CO;Santee,CA;Springfield,OR; or various university campuses, it could happen at workplaces too.

I could probably name many things that happened in Paulding County, where I spent middle school and high school, before the Black people started to increase. Some of those things even happened to me. I know some people who had some interesting experiences.
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:19 AM
 
53,149 posts, read 48,402,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
Actually I agree with you. I didn't mean to come off as if I was lumping everybody in. I just mean that after the experiences I had, I've become uncontrollably unsure of blacks.

Trust me it's not something I do intentionally. Honestly I wish I wasn't so effected by it.

My question of stereotypes was in reference to those who do act that way.

I do get you. I'll apply the same issue to another stereotype. Fat people. I'm pretty big, but I'm clean, relatively smart, and I don't sit around all day. But I suffer the stereotype of the fat lazy slob.

The sad fact is, the stereotype exists because there are so many fat lazy slobs.

I know there are blacks in BR who are good people. I met a few here and there. But for every nice person I met, five wished me harm. Or so it seemed. Maybe, once again, I just encountered every wrong person. It has all left me terribly confused and conflicted.

And sadly, most of BR's crime is committed by blacks. Well, for the sake of it I'll go ahead and say, most of BR's -reported- crimes.
We have agreed on something. That is good.

I am thinking this is a Baton Rouge problem. Maybe you might have different luck in parts of Atlanta.

What I notice is that the persons who don't complain about the stereotypes are the ones who live up to those stereotypes. I dealt with this in high school. Some of the kids who lived up to those stupid stereotypes weren't the ones who were worried about looking bad. I was the one who was worried. While on one hand, there wasn't much I could do about, I also felt like I could be judged for it too. Today I am a bit cynical as well. While I don't like it when other persons live up to the stereotypes, sometimes I feel like not living up to the stereotype doesn't mean you won't be judged. People out there judge for many reasons, and this goes across all races and ethnicities.

As for the fat person example, I understand you are trying to drive a point home. With that said, I don't look at the two the same way. A person's weight can fluctuate. Race can't be changed. But the point you are trying to drive home is that people develop stereotypes out of what they have seen. That being said, there is more than meets the eye.

It could also be where you are going to. I know if I go back to Paulding County, I have a higher chance of running into a lower caliber of White persons(and I have been around alot of them). On the other hand, if I go into the city of Atlanta(particularly Midtown), or Marietta, it is a different story. In alot of cases it is about the company you keep.
I learned in high school who not to hang around. In a nutshell, my high school was rather polarized. Now out of the nutshell. The fact that my high school was rather polarized was evident at lunch time. Most of the Black kids sat in one part of the cafeteria, while Whites sat everywhere else. There was no "Black section" spoken of. Still, it kind of existed. I was a drifter. Being the way I was, I drifted wherever I could. Eventually, I did find people I could relate to. My senior year, my table was relatively mixed. I was around Black people I could relate to as well as White people.
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Baton Rouge
1,734 posts, read 5,178,073 times
Reputation: 655
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA View Post


That's obvious. Saying I'm not safe on that side of the tracks is not the same as saying I'm not safe around blacks even if below the tracks is 100% black. What happens below the tracks does not represent everyone that lives below them nor does it represent that as a whole.


So why is it somehow not obvious to you that I am not concerned about the why or the how? If two guys are fighting over drugs in the street, and a stray bullet comes through my wall and hits me, the why or the how doesn't make much difference, does it? Why can't you understand that black neighborhoods in Baton Rouge are ALL more dangerous than the white neighborhoods...by a white margin. Not sure why that's so hard to understand and I also don't quite understand why you act so shocked. Blacks do happen to commit nearly all the violent crime, and lower income areas generally have a higher crime rate. The racial and or economic distribution of persons in Baton Rouge is not something I care to debate with you, because it gets away from the basic and easily understood point I made from the very beginning regarding the location of a huge majority of the crime, and that a certain race just happens to live there.

Since you are so sure that I am completely flatout wrong on all points, I think you should rent a place at the Brandywine condos here in Baton Rouge. Let the experience speak for itself. Hell, I'll even pay your rent for a month. I think you will come around pretty quickly. You have nothing to worry about since you know that you are right.
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Old 10-12-2010, 11:38 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, United States
4,230 posts, read 9,390,578 times
Reputation: 1418
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroBTR View Post
So why is it somehow not obvious to you that I am not concerned about the why or the how? If two guys are fighting over drugs in the street, and a stray bullet comes through my wall and hits me, the why or the how doesn't make much difference, does it? Why can't you understand that black neighborhoods in Baton Rouge are ALL more dangerous than the white neighborhoods...by a white margin. Not sure why that's so hard to understand and I also don't quite understand why you act so shocked. Blacks do happen to commit nearly all the violent crime, and lower income areas generally have a higher crime rate. The racial and or economic distribution of persons in Baton Rouge is not something I care to debate with you, because it gets away from the basic and easily understood point I made from the very beginning regarding the location of a huge majority of the crime, and that a certain race just happens to live there.

Since you are so sure that I am completely flatout wrong on all points, I think you should rent a place at the Brandywine condos here in Baton Rouge. Let the experience speak for itself. Hell, I'll even pay your rent for a month. I think you will come around pretty quickly. You have nothing to worry about since you know that you are right.
When have I said that you were flat out wrong on anything? All I originally said was that I hate to hear people generalize. Why are you so offended, hmm?

I haven't disputed anything you've said and if you haven't been paying attention, looking at racial distribution is the point of the thread. The name of it is "Racial/Ethnic layout of Louisiana cities".

Are you safer in a middle class white neighborhood than you are lower class black neighborhood? More than likely you are. Now are you safer around white people than you are black people? Hell no. All white people aren't good and all blacks aren't bad. Now, if that's how you feel than that is how you feel, I never implied that you felt that way until you took offense to my opinion. Why you feel that it puts you on the spot I guess I'll never know. I can only assume, but then I'd be generalizing so I won't.

As far as Brandywine, I just shared my experience being near the "white version" of hell, so why do you think the "black version" will make me see things any different?

So how safe do you feel around these whites that have adopted "low class black culture" (whatever that may be) compared to the middle class blacks who want exactly what you apparently want.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Innotech View Post
look, heres the facts.

1. the black population tends to be lower income
2. lower income areas have more crime
3. Put the two together and what do you get?

This is not saying black people are criminals, but it is saying areas where black people tend to live often have an increase in criminal activity. There are whites living in these neighbrhoods as well and guess what? Some of them commit crime. Its lower income areas in general that cause crime.
Exactly, Exactly
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:16 AM
 
Location: New Orleans, United States
4,230 posts, read 9,390,578 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte View Post
What I notice is that the persons who don't complain about the stereotypes are the ones who live up to those stereotypes... While I don't like it when other persons live up to the stereotypes, sometimes I feel like not living up to the stereotype doesn't mean you won't be judged. People out there judge for many reasons, and this goes across all races and ethnicities.
I agree. That's why I don't care for generalizations. People will perceive an entire group because of the actions of half the group then dismiss it by telling the other half something like "oh, it's not my problem; you should do something about it" as if they are anymore responsible. Like seriously, they don't realize the person's problem is not what the rest of their group is doing, but box that those outside the group has put them in and this goes beyond race. It works the same for religion, gender, sexuality, weight and so on.


Quote:
It could also be where you are going to.
Exactly. Living in N.O. I have seen highest and the lowest of every ethnic group present here. I know that no group of people are any dangerous than the other. The only exception is blacks are more likely to kill or be killed. Even then, those blacks killing and getting killed are 95% of the time from an isolated group within the black low class society.

On the other hand there was a thread in the Louisiana forum where a poster was moving from one metro to the N.O. metro and was appalled because she saw well dressed blacks and low class white people in Wal-Mart. Apparently this doesn't happen where she was coming from. It's all dependent on what you're conditioned to, I guess.
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Old 10-13-2010, 12:32 PM
 
53,149 posts, read 48,402,084 times
Reputation: 16545
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA View Post
I agree. That's why I don't care for generalizations. People will perceive an entire group because of the actions of half the group then dismiss it by telling the other half something like "oh, it's not my problem; you should do something about it" as if they are anymore responsible. Like seriously, they don't realize the person's problem is not what the rest of their group is doing, but box that those outside the group has put them in and this goes beyond race. It works the same for religion, gender, sexuality, weight and so on.




Exactly. Living in N.O. I have seen highest and the lowest of every ethnic group present here. I know that no group of people are any dangerous than the other. The only exception is blacks are more likely to kill or be killed. Even then, those blacks killing and getting killed are 95% of the time from an isolated group within the black low class society.

On the other hand there was a thread in the Louisiana forum where a poster was moving from one metro to the N.O. metro and was appalled because she saw well dressed blacks and low class white people in Wal-Mart. Apparently this doesn't happen where she was coming from. It's all dependent on what you're conditioned to, I guess.
I have a feeling this is how some people look at it. It does harm to those who do not fulfill the stereotypes. Someone tells me "you do something about it". Well, I have been doing something about it for most of my life. My parents have been doing something about it. That doing something means not living up to the stereotype. What more can one do?

I see the high and low of many ethnicities in metropolitan Atlanta. It depends on where you hang out too. If I am around my university, I will see upstanding people of many ethnicity. If I take the bus to Franklin Road in Marietta,GA, I have a high chance of running into drug dealers or criminals.
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Baton Rouge
1,734 posts, read 5,178,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA View Post
When have I said that you were flat out wrong on anything? All I originally said was that I hate to hear people generalize. Why are you so offended, hmm?

I haven't disputed anything you've said and if you haven't been paying attention, looking at racial distribution is the point of the thread. The name of it is "Racial/Ethnic layout of Louisiana cities".

Are you safer in a middle class white neighborhood than you are lower class black neighborhood? More than likely you are. Now are you safer around white people than you are black people? Hell no. All white people aren't good and all blacks aren't bad. Now, if that's how you feel than that is how you feel, I never implied that you felt that way until you took offense to my opinion. Why you feel that it puts you on the spot I guess I'll never know. I can only assume, but then I'd be generalizing so I won't.

As far as Brandywine, I just shared my experience being near the "white version" of hell, so why do you think the "black version" will make me see things any different?

So how safe do you feel around these whites that have adopted "low class black culture" (whatever that may be) compared to the middle class blacks who want exactly what you apparently want.




Exactly, Exactly
Btw in case anybody was wondring, in the post you quoted I meant to say "wide" margin not "white" margin.

You have disputed most of what I've said, actually. It takes two. Even with the most annoying posters.

Still, the statistics tell me what I need to know about where I live and the people that live around me. What makes you think you will change my mind? I am not generalizing anything about where you live, or anyplace other than Baton Rouge...and I have already emphasized the fact that the safe neighborhoods are heavily white...I believe you used the term "polarized" to describe the impression you got based on my statements. So if you can believe that it is that polarized, why can't you believe the other things I have said about crime and where you are likely more safe and where you are likely less safe?

As far as your white version of hell...you just don't know what you're missing in Baton Rouge's black "version of hell". I don't really care if you change your mind or not, I still just want you to experience it.

I have already stated that all whites are not good, all blacks are not bad. We have established that. What you keep failing to see is that I do not feel safer around lower class whites than I do around lower class blacks, but the fact is that the amount of lower class whites in my city does not come close to the number of lower class blacks. There is demographic data of that on the web for everyone to see. Lower class whites form a tiny minority in these heavily black neighborhoods. Just like middle class blacks form a very tiny minority in my neighborhood.

Was the bold print clear enough? So let's have no more discussion about that particular subject.
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