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Old 05-24-2016, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Denver
14,353 posts, read 20,788,168 times
Reputation: 9241

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusiphur View Post
Louisiana actually has one of the higher corporate tax rates in the country, so it's not that corporations aren't paying taxes. It's that there really aren't all that many large companies based in Louisiana. Even Century-link, which is nominally based in Monroe, actually has most of their senior staff in Texas.

And don't be so quick to point to Texas as a shining beacon of a red state. A) They're trending purple, and B) They're actually in the negatives for 2015 - the only reason they are sometimes a net positive contributor is because of Oil. When oil prices are high, they pay more than they get. When oil prices are low, they get more than they pay. Having an economy that is so dependent on natural resources is something pre-industrial third-world countries do.
You said it in a later post that these oil companies get huge tax breaks. Zurik: $11 billion later, Louisiana's incentives fail to deliver
I've heard $7 billion and that article says $11 billion. In my view, they aren't paying taxes.
I understand Texas but it is a red/purple state, and they do have a far more robust economy than Louisiana. I was just stating how being a red state doesn't mean it will be like Louisiana.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusiphur View Post
I'm not comparing them to third world countries, except in one very specific area - having a resource-based economy. Which is a valid comparison, and getting offended by that is incredibly immature. Resource-based economies are volatile, unsustainable, don't create significant wealth for the middle and lower classes, and often damage the environment, hence why people try to move away from them as soon as possible. Texas is trying, but oil is still such a big part of their economic mix that it hurts them everywhere else.
That is 100% accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by selogic View Post
Are you talking about those plants that provide thousands of jobs that pay anywhere from 15.00 to 40.00 hr ? Not to mention those jobs created by all of the companies that service these plants ? I visit these plants all the time in my work and I see the jobs and I KNOW what the pay scale is . Many of these people commute long distances to work here or have relocated from other states . Your statement is just mindless rhetoric .
Those jobs last as long as the high prices and tax breaks. Many of those jobs aren't stable, they are incredibly dangerous, and they are the reason for Cancer Alley along the river.
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Louisiana
810 posts, read 670,164 times
Reputation: 1223
So tell me , how long have YOU been working in these plants ? Just wondering where you got your completely inaccurate information .
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Old 05-25-2016, 09:12 AM
 
289 posts, read 239,956 times
Reputation: 295
Quote:
Originally Posted by selogic View Post
Are you talking about those plants that provide thousands of jobs that pay anywhere from 15.00 to 40.00 hr ? Not to mention those jobs created by all of the companies that service these plants ? I visit these plants all the time in my work and I see the jobs and I KNOW what the pay scale is . Many of these people commute long distances to work here or have relocated from other states . Your statement is just mindless rhetoric .
I mean those plants with an average hourly employee compensation of $7.25 per hour, mostly staffed by "temps" working through a contracted staffing agency, with no healthcare, benefits, or job security. The plants that operate tax free (and in fact many of which operate at what is essentially a net-negative tax rate, thanks to credits provided by states and municipalities). The ones that often employ a large percentage of illegal workers or transient workers that don't meaningfully contribute to the local economy, either through spending or income taxes. In other words, I'm talking about the majority of plants. Pretty much everything except the few flagship manufacturing companies.

See, I also know what the pay scale is. I've worked closely with a manufacturing consulting group that handles plant efficiency and design. The days of manufacturing starting at $15 per hour are long gone. Even what I would consider the best companies are starting to phase in starting pay of $11 per hour or less. A lot of them are becoming automated to the point where any job paying over $15 an hour requires a college degree. The number of jobs paying $20 per hour or more can be counted on one hand per plant.

So you have these monstrosities belching out carcinogens and pollutants that actively hurt local populations (check out cancer rates among children in Monroe, LA where the paper plant can be smelled from miles away). They pay no taxes, and get significant tax breaks. They pay their employees a salary that's low enough that the municipalities and the state can't collect enough taxes from them to meet their financial obligations, and even still the number of manufacturing jobs per $ produced is shrinking due to the advance of automation. Meanwhile, communities are so obsessed that this is the only way they can make ends meet that they don't bother coming up with contingency plans for when the plants shut down or shed jobs.

For a great look at what that ends up looking like, take a look at Magee, MS. The largest employer there for a long time was PFG. When they shut down the processing and distribution center, the town's tax revenues dropped by something like 20%. Median wages dropped even further, by about 30%. They had no backup plan, because the local government (and the people who lived there) refused to listen to worries about relying on an economic engine that is being phased out of the overall economy. They, like you, would rather get in to arguments about how wonderful everything is and how your way of life is the best and how dare anyone so much as insinuate anything different than they are to take a serious and critical look at the fundamentals of their way of life with an eye towards moving forward to better things. You would rather get indignant at a perceived personal insult (which is utterly ludicrous in and of itself - we're talking about economies of states, why are you taking it so personally?), than they are to have a reasoned and intelligent debate about the merits and flaws of the way things are.

Good luck with that.
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Old 05-25-2016, 03:33 PM
 
Location: nola
860 posts, read 995,699 times
Reputation: 489
[quote=Lusiphur;44183336]I mean those plants with an average hourly employee compensation of $7.25 per hour, mostly staffed by "temps" working through a contracted staffing agency, with no healthcare, benefits, or job security. The plants that operate tax free (and in fact many of which operate at what is essentially a net-negative tax rate, thanks to credits provided by states and municipalities). The ones that often employ a large percentage of illegal workers or transient workers that don't meaningfully contribute to the local economy, either through spending or income taxes. In other words, I'm talking about the majority of plants. Pretty much everything except the few flagship manufacturing companies.

See, I also know what the pay scale is. I've worked closely with a manufacturing consulting group that handles plant efficiency and design. The days of manufacturing starting at $15 per hour are long gone. Even what I would consider the best companies are starting to phase in starting pay of $11 per hour or less. A lot of them are becoming automated to the point where any job paying over $15 an hour requires a college degree. The number of jobs paying $20 per hour or more can be counted on one hand per plant.

So you have these monstrosities belching out carcinogens and pollutants that actively hurt local populations (check out cancer rates among children in Monroe, LA where the paper plant can be smelled from miles away). They pay no taxes, and get significant tax breaks. They pay their employees a salary that's low enough that the municipalities and the state can't collect enough taxes from them to meet their financial obligations, and even still the number of manufacturing jobs per $ produced is shrinking due to the advance of automation. Meanwhile, communities are so obsessed that this is the only way they can make ends meet that they don't bother coming up with contingency plans for when the plants shut down or shed jobs.

For a great look at what that ends up looking like, take a look at Magee, MS. The largest employer there for a long time was PFG. When they shut down the processing and distribution center, the town's tax revenues dropped by something like 20%. Median wages dropped even further, by about 30%. They had no backup plan, because the local government (and the people who lived there) refused to listen to worries about relying on an economic engine that is being phased out of the overall economy. They, like you, would rather get in to arguments about how wonderful everything is and how your way of life is the best and how dare anyone so much as insinuate anything different than they are to take a serious and critical look at the fundamentals of their way of life with an eye towards moving forward to better things. You would rather get indignant at a perceived personal insult (which is utterly ludicrous in and of itself - we're talking about economies of states, why are you taking it so personally?), than they are to have a reasoned and intelligent debate about the merits and flaws of the way things are.

Good luck with that.[/QUOT


You make some good points, but I don't think you should be surprised that people are offended. Pride in your city is not a big thing in Miami. I know from experience. People here are very proud of where they live and don't want someone who lives somewhere else, who has admitted their interests are in the money they can make from the people here, saying this state is one step from a third world country. Some people take that personal, and I'm not even from here. I'm not saying you're wrong. I've spent 10 years in New Orleans, and very little time in the rest of the state, so I'm no expert on Louisiana or it's politics. I just don't think you should be surprised that people are offended.
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Old 05-25-2016, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Huntsville, AL
2,855 posts, read 1,065,089 times
Reputation: 5420
I CAN'T WAIT to see you #NEVERTRUMP folks roll over and die on election night....
Oh, and those of you that claim that you'll leave the country if he's elected? I hear there are good rates if you buy your tickets now...
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Old 05-25-2016, 04:19 PM
 
Location: nola
860 posts, read 995,699 times
Reputation: 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumf View Post
I CAN'T WAIT to see you #NEVERTRUMP folks roll over and die on election night....
Oh, and those of you that claim that you'll leave the country if he's elected? I hear there are good rates if you buy your tickets now...
This is my problem with politics. Aren't we all Americans? There is no compromise these days. If they don't agree with you, you want them to die?
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Old 05-25-2016, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Louisiana
810 posts, read 670,164 times
Reputation: 1223
$7.25 hr ? Bull**** . I work with the craft people all of the time . You're full of it . I'm not talking about contract laborers , but the actual trained electricians , instrument techs , millrights , lab techs , and on and on . The plants are full of them .
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Old 05-25-2016, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Denver
14,353 posts, read 20,788,168 times
Reputation: 9241
Oh boy
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Old 05-25-2016, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Denver
14,353 posts, read 20,788,168 times
Reputation: 9241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumf View Post
I CAN'T WAIT to see you #NEVERTRUMP folks roll over and die on election night....
Oh, and those of you that claim that you'll leave the country if he's elected? I hear there are good rates if you buy your tickets now...
I'm sure he would be impeached within the first couple years or after the first scandal.
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Old 05-26-2016, 02:51 AM
 
Location: Louisiana
810 posts, read 670,164 times
Reputation: 1223
False Flag operation going on here .
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