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Old 06-23-2010, 08:49 AM
 
39 posts, read 98,974 times
Reputation: 16

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Jim, I see this is an idealogical debate on which neither one of us will waver. I will take you up on that lunch though if I ever come to Lafayette! I'm heading down to New Orleans in a few weeks to visit friends and see this thing for myself.

I think residents are all very confused and shocked and don't know where to put their energies. My boyfriend is from New Orleans--all his friends and family are there and in Mississippi--and for the most part they seem to be the least informed of anyone we've talked to. I think they don't WANT to see how bad this really is.

Sure, there are many fishermen who need a job now and are willing to take one by BP in the "cleanup effort," but along with that comes the very high risk of extreme toxification that no one will take responsibility for. Is the money worth their lives?
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Youngsville, LA
431 posts, read 965,322 times
Reputation: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunandsalt View Post
Jim, I see this is an idealogical debate on which neither one of us will waver. I will take you up on that lunch though if I ever come to Lafayette! I'm heading down to New Orleans in a few weeks to visit friends and see this thing for myself.

I think residents are all very confused and shocked and don't know where to put their energies. My boyfriend is from New Orleans--all his friends and family are there and in Mississippi--and for the most part they seem to be the least informed of anyone we've talked to. I think they don't WANT to see how bad this really is.

Sure, there are many fishermen who need a job now and are willing to take one by BP in the "cleanup effort," but along with that comes the very high risk of extreme toxification that no one will take responsibility for. Is the money worth their lives?
That is a very valid question. Benzene levels alone should become headlined on every newspaper along the Gulf, along with the ugly truth of what that means to every human looking at exposer. BAD stuff. Down here, we've become so accustomed to the offshore oil industry without ever seeing anything on this scale, that many are hopelessly stuck in the hurricane mindset and model of survival. Sure, it's a destructive event, but we'll just rebuild as always.....

MUCH different situation with the toxicity levels seen here for the first time. So kudos for that observation of yours that many residents here seem to completely ignore.

Within my own company at least, the toxicity subject has become a hot topic, so much so that the CEO himself called me some weeks ago to get my input on what it will take to get all of "our people" out of there ASAP, and where the best evac point should be. I gave him my best advice considering the geography, etc., and he gave me the "Make it so, number one!". We usually contract the local helicopter companies, but they were understandably booked from what I heard. And as I can hardly land a fixed winged plane on an offshore facility, I chose that evac site the best I could. Worked out well, so far...

Sunandsalt, I appreciate our different ideologies and look forward to buying you and your boyfriend lunch when visiting Lafayette. And heck, we don't even need to debate all this crap. How about we just enjoy food and normal conversation? I'm still buying.

Last edited by JimLFT; 06-23-2010 at 10:17 PM..
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Louisiana
1,743 posts, read 3,073,819 times
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To JimLFT: I certainly admire your tolerance of those who want to deride the traditional way of life. I find it very interesting, too, that most of these complainers choose not to provide their locations.

I am troubled by those people primarily because they are not so profoundly dedicated to their derisive ideals that they will forsake the way of life that the petroleum industry provides for all of us. How many of them walk to work -- or, at worst, ride a bicycle that was manufactured in a modern plant? How many of them have turned off their electricity? And how many of them make their own clothing from the cotton they have grown themselves? Perhaps the reader can make the connection: I remember seeing a bumper sticker on a farm truck years ago. It read, If you have any problems with farmers, don't talk with your mouth full.
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Old 06-24-2010, 04:43 PM
 
5,582 posts, read 5,379,944 times
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Ok, now that I've gotten that off my chest, let me elaborate. The majority of Americans work for corporations, whether it be of the Limited Liability variety, or otherwise, we work and thrive from the PRIVATE SECTOR in this country! Any problem with this concept so far????
Sure, there are problems with corporate "thriving". It's called "externalization". For smart academic definitions google it. In two words "externalization" means that people who don't really partake in
corporate "thriving" one way or another end up paying corporate bills (frequently with their health and lives). Corporations are given LEGAL rights to transfer significant share of their obligations, liabilities and expenses on public at large, public who do NOT partake in corporate thriving at all.

Examples are numerous: Tayson Foods don't pay medical bills if chicken excrements contaminate somebody's well water or Mississippi Water, or Gulf water for that matter. Coal power generation facilities in the USA do not pay for the damage caused by acid rains in Canada. US food industry do NOT pay gigantic medical bills resulting from consumption of its toxic, hormone ridden, cancer facilitating food-like products. US corporations who moved their plants to Mexico do NOT pay legal costs, incarceration costs, policing costs, funeral costs, divorce costs associated with crime, suicide&family feud spike during destruction of yet another one plant town.


In two word, the phrase "socialize expenses, privatize gains" is the problem.
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Old 06-24-2010, 06:48 PM
 
39 posts, read 98,974 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosinante View Post

I am troubled by those people primarily because they are not so profoundly dedicated to their derisive ideals that they will forsake the way of life that the petroleum industry provides for all of us. How many of them walk to work -- or, at worst, ride a bicycle that was manufactured in a modern plant? How many of them have turned off their electricity? And how many of them make their own clothing from the cotton they have grown themselves? Perhaps the reader can make the connection: I remember seeing a bumper sticker on a farm truck years ago. It read, If you have any problems with farmers, don't talk with your mouth full.
In fact many people who deride the traditional way of life ARE trying to move away from petroleum, grow their own food, and support sustainable practices. Just because we haven't all succeeded doesn't mean we're hypocrites or should suffer in the cold and the dark. With relatively little support from our entire culture and obstacles around every corner, I'd say those that are really making headway on the transition to renewable energy are doing a fantastic job. It is a game we must play until we have the means to get as far away from it as possible, and yet even then we're not totally free because things like solar panels are still produced and distributed using oil, and it costs money to buy tools and materials, etc. Unfortunately it currently requires those things we are moving away from to make the move.

I'm sure there are millions of people who would gladly put solar panels on their roofs, grow as many vegetables in their backyards as they had room for, and operate a vehicle that required no gas if they had the money to invest and the widespread education and support to get started. But this is literally a grassroots movement, and it takes a lot of time and energy to move past all the bull**** that has been inundating us all our lives. The destructive consumer culture has hundreds of years and trillions of well-placed dollars behind it; it's been so effective in that short time that it has nearly wiped out our natural instincts of Earth connection that had been cultivated over many thousands of years. It's like starting over, except the slate is not nearly blank: it is messy, it has a dark history and is plagued with opposition.

We do what we can and try not to judge ourselves too harshly along the way.
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