Sherman Minton Bridge shut down due to structural crack (Louisville: transportation, commute)

[orogenicman]

Originally Posted by rbryant

Part, if not most, of the blame should be leveled at RiverFields- a bunch of elite big money homeowners in northeast Jefferson county. If it weren't for the threat of lawsuits from these guys, the east end bridge would have been open by now. IMO, the states of KY and IN, and the Feds need to give Riverfields the big middle finger and build the dang bridge already. Let them take the Govt to court.

Well, to be fair, River fields hasn't been neglecting the much needed maintenance on the Sherman Minton Bridge, which is why we are in the immediate predicament we are in. And it isn't River Fields that is holding up the Bridges project. It is funding, and the fact that the engineers have over-designed it to maximize the product they can build, which then means that they have to come back and ask for more money. It's a money game, pure and simple. The fact is that we simply don't have the bucks to build it as is. So they will likely go through yet another redesign, which will require yet more assessments, and then inflation will tack on more costs, etc, etc, etc. Remember, these are some of the same people who took 25 years to build a five mile long road in southwest Jefferson County.

[rbryant]

No, they are not responsible for the Sherman Minton, but they are very much a player in the transportation crisis unfolding in Louisville. They have fought tooth and nail the past 15-20 years over the east end bridge project. The end end bridge would have greatly alleviated traffic going into downtown as trucks and others could link into I265 in southern Indiana without snarling traffic in spaghetti junction. But, the Govt, bowing before Riverfields again, wanted to build another downtown bridge and redesign the Junction. Of course, years later, not a damn thing has been done. And so the chickens have come home to roost. Louisville, a major US city with three interstates intersecting, is down to two bridges. One, the JFK, is supposed to carry north south traffic from I-65 and now detoured traffic from I-64. The Clark, is not designed to carry a large amount of traffic, and requires motorists to exit the interstate and navigate downtown to get to Second Street.
So, what happens if a few weeks in the future, during some inspection, they find structural issues with the Kennedy. Again, neither bridges are young, so it's quite plausible. One can imagine the crisis in trying to divert traffic across the Clark or, worse, down to the Matthew Welsh Bridge in Brandenburg.

[The Dissenter]

Originally Posted by rbryant

No, they are not responsible for the Sherman Minton, but they are very much a player in the transportation crisis unfolding in Louisville. They have fought tooth and nail the past 15-20 years over the east end bridge project. The end end bridge would have greatly alleviated traffic going into downtown as trucks and others could link into I265 in southern Indiana without snarling traffic in spaghetti junction. But, the Govt, bowing before Riverfields again, wanted to build another downtown bridge and redesign the Junction. Of course, years later, not a damn thing has been done. And so the chickens have come home to roost. Louisville, a major US city with three interstates intersecting, is down to two bridges. One, the JFK, is supposed to carry north south traffic from I-65 and now detoured traffic from I-64. The Clark, is not designed to carry a large amount of traffic, and requires motorists to exit the interstate and navigate downtown to get to Second Street.
So, what happens if a few weeks in the future, during some inspection, they find structural issues with the Kennedy. Again, neither bridges are young, so it's quite plausible. One can imagine the crisis in trying to divert traffic across the Clark or, worse, down to the Matthew Welsh Bridge in Brandenburg.

If it gets that bad, I won't be going to mom's house (lives in Vine Grove in Hardin County) to do laundry and chat it up.

I hoped I left crazy traffic behind when I moved here from DC last year.

[orogenicman]

Originally Posted by rbryant

No, they are not responsible for the Sherman Minton, but they are very much a player in the transportation crisis unfolding in Louisville. They have fought tooth and nail the past 15-20 years over the east end bridge project. The end end bridge would have greatly alleviated traffic going into downtown as trucks and others could link into I265 in southern Indiana without snarling traffic in spaghetti junction. But, the Govt, bowing before Riverfields again, wanted to build another downtown bridge and redesign the Junction. Of course, years later, not a damn thing has been done. And so the chickens have come home to roost. Louisville, a major US city with three interstates intersecting, is down to two bridges. One, the JFK, is supposed to carry north south traffic from I-65 and now detoured traffic from I-64. The Clark, is not designed to carry a large amount of traffic, and requires motorists to exit the interstate and navigate downtown to get to Second Street.
So, what happens if a few weeks in the future, during some inspection, they find structural issues with the Kennedy. Again, neither bridges are young, so it's quite plausible. One can imagine the crisis in trying to divert traffic across the Clark or, worse, down to the Matthew Welsh Bridge in Brandenburg.

River Fields were not the only ones who opposed the East End Bridge. Many land owners opposed it as well. Moreover, many others (myself included) have also wanted the new downtown bridge. We need both. In fact, we also need one across the river in the Southwest part of the county. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening in my lifetime.

I do believe that the current situation might actually be a godsend, as it might spur everyone to put pressure on the powers that be to get on with it and get the Bridges built.

[Informative]

At least it wasn't a big catastrophe/accident and is preventative.

[orogenicman]

Originally Posted by Informative

At least it wasn't a big catastrophe/accident and is preventative.

That is true. As disruptive as it is, they made the right decision to close the bridge. I have no problem with that decision.

[Orgetorix]

Originally Posted by orogenicman

River Fields were not the only ones who opposed the East End Bridge. Many land owners opposed it as well. Moreover, many others (myself included) have also wanted the new downtown bridge. We need both. In fact, we also need one across the river in the Southwest part of the county. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening in my lifetime.

I do believe that the current situation might actually be a godsend, as it might spur everyone to put pressure on the powers that be to get on with it and get the Bridges built.

We don't need both bridges. If the East End bridge is successfully built, it will divert enough traffic off the Kennedy interchange to make the second downtown bridge unnecessary. In fact, the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet has found that traffic counts on all three Louisville interstates (64, 65, and 71) have actually decreased since the 2003 Record of Decision that settled on the two-bridge solution. Not to mention how much more of an eyesore our downtown waterfront will become with another bridge and reworked Spaghetti Junction.

And I have to say, I don't see the need for a southwest bridge either. The road infrastructure isn't there on the Indiana side, the hills would present a significant (though not impossible) topographical obstacle, and there just isn't the kind of population base over on that side of Indiana to make much use of it. Although, as an 86-64 supporter, I do have to say that a southwest bridge would make the downtown waterfront portion of 64 even more unnecessary.

[orogenicman]

Originally Posted by Orgetorix

We don't need both bridges. If the East End bridge is successfully built, it will divert enough traffic off the Kennedy interchange to make the second downtown bridge unnecessary. In fact, the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet has found that traffic counts on all three Louisville interstates (64, 65, and 71) have actually decreased since the 2003 Record of Decision that settled on the two-bridge solution. Not to mention how much more of an eyesore our downtown waterfront will become with another bridge and reworked Spaghetti Junction.

And I have to say, I don't see the need for a southwest bridge either. The road infrastructure isn't there on the Indiana side, the hills would present a significant (though not impossible) topographical obstacle, and there just isn't the kind of population base over on that side of Indiana to make much use of it. Although, as an 86-64 supporter, I do have to say that a southwest bridge would make the downtown waterfront portion of 64 even more unnecessary.

A southwest bridge would open up the riverport and the rest of the southwestern portion of the county (much of which is blighted due to economic neglect) to more business, and cut significant drive time for freighters heading west. It would also complete the bypass around Louisville. I believe a new downtown bridge is vital to continued growth of the city and the region as a whole, and at any rate, the Kennedy isn't going to last forever.

[kytoaz]

Originally Posted by Orgetorix

We don't need both bridges. If the East End bridge is successfully built, it will divert enough traffic off the Kennedy interchange to make the second downtown bridge unnecessary. In fact, the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet has found that traffic counts on all three Louisville interstates (64, 65, and 71) have actually decreased since the 2003 Record of Decision that settled on the two-bridge solution. Not to mention how much more of an eyesore our downtown waterfront will become with another bridge and reworked Spaghetti Junction.

And I have to say, I don't see the need for a southwest bridge either. The road infrastructure isn't there on the Indiana side, the hills would present a significant (though not impossible) topographical obstacle, and there just isn't the kind of population base over on that side of Indiana to make much use of it. Although, as an 86-64 supporter, I do have to say that a southwest bridge would make the downtown waterfront portion of 64 even more unnecessary.

I have to whole-heartedly disagree. it's this kind of short-sightedness that has gotten us into the current mess. who cares what traffic is TODAY? it's about the future of our city and the growth of our city. In order for louisville to ever catch others like indy or cincy, we have to have two more bridges.

now, if you don't want this city to continue to grow, and many do not, then by all means oppose the bridges.

I also don't see how a beautiful, modern piece of architecture would be an "eyesore" to our downtown. I'm sure people in san francisco thought the same thing when the golden gate was being built. worked out pretty well for them as well as numerous other citys around the world whose beautiful bridges became an identity for them. god knows this town needs an identity, imo.

[Orgetorix]

Perhaps eyesore was the wrong word, at least for the downtown bridge itself. I like the design from an architectural standpoint.

What I'm opposed to is further cementing the layers upon layers of roadway that cut Louisvillians off from our waterfront. Elevated interstate roadway is an eyesore, and it is a blight on the urban fabric that is in part responsible for the last fifty years of urban decay that every major city in the US has experienced. While progressive, modern cities across the US and around the world are tearing down and getting rid of urban freeways, and experiencing the benefits of having them gone, we Louisvillians are stuck in a twentieth-century "build more roads" development mindset that could set us back decades as a city.

We do need more transportation in the area, and we do need more bridges. I agree the Kennedy isn't going to last forever. But the two-bridge "solution" is an economic boondoggle that could bankrupt the region, a River Fields fatcat play to delay the East End bridge which has been needed for decades, and an unnecessary step at this point in time.

We need to split the project, build the East End bridge now, and assess the need for another downtown bridge over the next 10-15 years.