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I would hate to mislead anyone about what to expect when moving to a new city, so I have to point out some of the facts that I have gathered:
From JCPS's website: http://www.jefferson.k12.ky.us/Schools/ElemDescrpt.html (broken link)
Per a parent who finally sent their child to Walden (a private school):
"When we moved, we were in Norton's district, but later we were told that she would be sent to Lincoln for that school year. When we asked, we were given another option (not Norton) but then told that the school was full. We did not want her to go to Lincoln, and decided to do the private school route. After one year, we were told she could return to Norton, but we decided to keep her at Walden and just pay the tuition for now."
Note: Norton is an east-end suburban school with a greatschools rating of 9/10. Lincoln is a downtown school with a greatschools rating of 3/10. Lincoln is about 15 miles from their home.
And, I called the district directly, and their response was that they are in the process of changing their assignment procedures. They stated that parents who apply for their child's enrollment by February can usually send their child to at least their second choice of schools within their cluster. However, no parent is guaranteed that their child will attend their local (resides) school even with early enrollment although they make every attempt to accommodate parent requests when possible. They also encourage parents to apply for a magnet program to have more choices when choosing a school.
It appears that these changes will allow for more parent control and choice, and will remove the mandatory racial balance busing. However, up until this point it was certainly possible (and often happened) for a child in an east-end neighborhood to be sent to a downtown or west-end school (or vice versa) without parents having an option to change it. It happened to us, and I can certainly share the details of a child riding a bus for an hour each way. If this will be changing in the future, then I am all for it.
Again, your evidence is one anecdotal case. We are talking about 2007, as I have no idea how it was in the past nor does it matter to anyone relocating here in 2008. The policy is stated clearly: Your address has a resides school. The majority of people get that school. You may also CHOOSE another school in your cluster. Byck is a good cluster. You may also CHOOSE to apply to a magnet school, many of which have HIGHER CATS scores than schools in Oldham (see my cited reference on the last page). People need to call the numbers I provided and talk to reps theirself, not just believe the hearsay.
I don't think we are misleading people, but instead empowering them with factual knowledge versus heresay. Anecdotal evidence is alot of what this site is about, and it is appreciated, but without facts, people cannot make informed decisions. Also, this is not a "versus" thing. It is not about Jefferson versus Oldham schools. It is about that BOTH districts happen to have great schools, and I am trying to dispel the myth that large amounts of children are bussed across town against their parents will in Jefferson county. For a good public education, JCPS is a GREAT and VIABLE option, and it has schools ranked higher than any in the metro area in terms of standardized test scores. Its HS graduates earn more scholarships to college and produce more National Merit Finalists.
What people living in KY do not understand is that most people relocating from KY are used to a much different city/suburban setup than exists in Louisville. In most metro areas, the urban schools are indeed junk. So people come in here expecting the same, but they do not realize that Louisville essentially has a merged suburban/urban school district and has so for over 30 years, making it one of the most progressive districts in the nation in that regard. Furthermore, around 2/3 of the metro area lives in the core county. That is very rare for a city this size. What many people relocating to Louisville do not get is that few if any of the surrounding counties have a supporting retail and commercial base to support them on a day to day basis without commuting to Jefferson County at some point. There is no edge city like Carmel, IN or Cary, NC, and frankly, thats what makes this a great city and metro area. So, the "city," ie Jefferson County, offers urban, suburban, and even rural, along with great public and private schools. The bad schools are really bad and they are populated by the children of bad parents from bad neighborhooods. Its a sad story, and its an American one reapeated in city after city.... its just their are few school districts set up like it in the USA.
Sooo in summary, if you like a home or area in Jefferson, by all means look at it! Call the JCPS and ask them what the resides school and cluster is, and ask them about the Magnet application process. After all, no elementary school in the metro can compare to Greathouse, and someone's kids from Jefferson County are attending this fine school, right?
Last edited by Peter1948; 12-19-2007 at 04:55 PM..
I have to say one reason there are a lot of private schools in Louisville is due to the tradition in the US of parochial schools associated with Catholic parishes.
Louisville is actually pretty Catholic and there are or used to be a lot of parishes with their own elementary schools around the city and suburbs. I understand this has changed somewhat with mergers of parochial schools, but this might account for the abundance of private schools.
This is one of those anecdotal comments, so here goes:
I'm not close enough to public education in Jefferson County now, but I do know my nephew attends Brandeis, which is a maths and science magnet school for elementary school kids.
From what I can tell he is more advanced than I was when I was his age, and from what my father (his grandfather) tells me the parents at Brandies are very committed and supportive of their kids education.
So, for that school at least, he is getting a pretty good education relative to what I received at parochial schools in Chicago and a public elementary in a Chicago suburb.
Again, your evidence is one anecdotal case. We are talking about 2007, as I have no idea how it was in the past nor does it matter to anyone relocating here in 2008. ... People need to call the numbers I provided and talk to reps theirself, not just believe the hearsay.
I do feel that these implications are misleading, and I want to point out that my information is not "simply hearsay" nor isolated anecdotal stories. Again, I will go back to the information directly from the district :
The June 07 Supreme Court ruling that forced JCPS to stop busing for racial desegregation came after 2007-08 student assignments had been completed. Right now, almost 3000 students in Jefferson County are being bussed without parent choice for the remainder of the school year.
The district is scrambling to re-work its student assignment plan since it can no longer use racial guidelines in determining student assignments. There is no official plan in place for 2008-2009, so yes, an unprecedented number of students will probably attend their resides school (or other school choice) for this coming year.
However, a new student assignment plan is currently being developed and is scheduled to be in place by the '09-'10 school year. Although this plan can not solely use racial desegregation as a consideration for busing, it will attempt to use other "equality" measures to fairly distribute access across the district.
From the Courier-Journal's summary of the Sept 10, 2007 board meeting in which the guidelines for the new student assignment plan were developed:
Quote:
"In addition to race, the district also will look at each student's ethnicity, socioeconomic status and disabilities to determine which school they could be assigned to", said Superintendent Sheldon Berman. According to the principles approved last night, the new "multi-criteria" student-assignment plan will be guided by six general guidelines -- diversity, quality, choice, predictability, stability and equity. "We want to look at diversity in a much broader light, so that it will maximize the educational benefits for all students," Berman said. "We will still look at race, and race will still be a major factor, but it will not be the only factor."
Parent choice and residency will be one consideration, but will not be a sole factor in determining where a child may attend school. The district fully intends to continue past traditions of busing students - it just will not be based simply on racial criteria. Focusing only the 2008-09 school year (which will not have a busing plan) is a fallacy when a new, unknown plan will be in place merely one year later. Even if parents should not be concerned about things that occurred in the past, they should certainly be concerned about the immediate future. And frankly, even if ideally 90% of children will attend their choice of school, it doesn't matter that much if you're one of the 10% of children who are randomly forced to go elsewhere, especially when an average "bussed" student rides at least 60 minutes each way according to documents presented at the Supreme Court hearing.
I do agree the JCPS offers several outstanding schools. And certainly the county-wide school district is unique compared to other larger cities. No, JCPS is certainly not similar to struggling urban districts like Chicago Public or Cleveland Public, which are primarily inner-city and lack strong funding and community/parent support. The choices within JCPS do mean that a student at any location in the city has a big variety of options available. However, people who are considering Louisville do need to understand how the district works, and that unlike a Chicago suburban district, living with JCPS means that your child could attend an outstanding school down the street or be one of the students forced to attend across town. It is a reality, and it happens every year to a lot of students. When you're used to a smaller local district (similar perhaps to Oldham) that has good schools across the board, it can be difficult to decide to take a chance on JCPS, even if the odds are in your favor. And yes - that is something that people native to Louisville don't usually understand, because many native Louisvillians don't realize how different it is (for better or worse) in most other cities.
I'm not promoting Oldham County over Jefferson for schools. I would love to have my children attend Manual High School. I just think that there needs to be a complete understanding of all of the policies for people who come to this board for information.
I do feel that these implications are misleading, and I want to point out that my information is not "simply hearsay" nor isolated anecdotal stories. Again, I will go back to the information directly from the district :
The June 07 Supreme Court ruling that forced JCPS to stop busing for racial desegregation came after 2007-08 student assignments had been completed. Right now, almost 3000 students in Jefferson County are being bussed without parent choice for the remainder of the school year.
The district is scrambling to re-work its student assignment plan since it can no longer use racial guidelines in determining student assignments. There is no official plan in place for 2008-2009, so yes, an unprecedented number of students will probably attend their resides school (or other school choice) for this coming year.
However, a new student assignment plan is currently being developed and is scheduled to be in place by the '09-'10 school year. Although this plan can not solely use racial desegregation as a consideration for busing, it will attempt to use other "equality" measures to fairly distribute access across the district.
From the Courier-Journal's summary of the Sept 10, 2007 board meeting in which the guidelines for the new student assignment plan were developed:
Parent choice and residency will be one consideration, but will not be a sole factor in determining where a child may attend school. The district fully intends to continue past traditions of busing students - it just will not be based simply on racial criteria. Focusing only the 2008-09 school year (which will not have a busing plan) is a fallacy when a new, unknown plan will be in place merely one year later. Even if parents should not be concerned about things that occurred in the past, they should certainly be concerned about the immediate future. And frankly, even if ideally 90% of children will attend their choice of school, it doesn't matter that much if you're one of the 10% of children who are randomly forced to go elsewhere, especially when an average "bussed" student rides at least 60 minutes each way according to documents presented at the Supreme Court hearing.
I do agree the JCPS offers several outstanding schools. And certainly the county-wide school district is unique compared to other larger cities. No, JCPS is certainly not similar to struggling urban districts like Chicago Public or Cleveland Public, which are primarily inner-city and lack strong funding and community/parent support. The choices within JCPS do mean that a student at any location in the city has a big variety of options available. However, people who are considering Louisville do need to understand how the district works, and that unlike a Chicago suburban district, living with JCPS means that your child could attend an outstanding school down the street or be one of the students forced to attend across town. It is a reality, and it happens every year to a lot of students. When you're used to a smaller local district (similar perhaps to Oldham) that has good schools across the board, it can be difficult to decide to take a chance on JCPS, even if the odds are in your favor. And yes - that is something that people native to Louisville don't usually understand, because many native Louisvillians don't realize how different it is (for better or worse) in most other cities.
I'm not promoting Oldham County over Jefferson for schools. I would love to have my children attend Manual High School. I just think that there needs to be a complete understanding of all of the policies for people who come to this board for information.
Nls...thank you for providing facts. Can you please cite your references as url links? Its not that I don't believe you, its just that people need to be properly informed. I was aware of the Supreme Court case, but I don't think there is any indication of this bussing against your will type of stuff will happen again. I mean there is a chance another US plane can be hijacked but how likely is it, and more importantly, how likely is it to affect you personally you know? At least you have made an attempt to make your case with facts, but I would like to see a citation (I can't find the Courier-Journal reference you made). The CURRENT JCPS policy is clear though: there seems to be a good chance your child will get the school you want if it correlates with your address. Anyone interested in the city needs to at least call them and ask questions instead of blindly only considering Oldham because of schools.
Unfortunately, even in these days of modern technology, not all resources have a corresponding URL where they are posted online. Specifically, the Courier Journal does not keep full-text articles online for an unlimited time. However, anyone who would like more information can access this article in its original print form by viewing the archives for the Tuesday, Sept 11 Courier Journal in the local news section. This article is titled "Schools adopt guidelines for assignment plan -Jefferson board broadens diversity" and was written by Antoinette Konz. If you need help accessing this information, contact your local library or PM me and I can steer you in the direction of appropriate research sources.
For all of the other information, please call the district directly as I did - they do not have any specific details yet about the upcoming assignment plan that will be announced, but they will happily chat with you about any concerns. They did, however, make it clear that a new assignment plan is well underway, that it will be place for the 2009-2010 school year, and that it will include assignments of students to schools for reasons other than parent choice and residency with expected similar results as previous racial-based busing. There will a time for public input before the plan is officially set in place, so I would encourage anyone who is interested to keep an eye out for that time and let your thoughts and concerns be known.
Edit: I've found an online full-text reprint of this article currently posted at: http://www.kctcs.edu/todaysnews/index.cfm?tn_date=2007-09-11#12493 (broken link)
Last edited by nlschr0; 12-20-2007 at 07:35 AM..
Reason: Added link
The only public school system I would enroll my child in is Oldham County. As a teacher (depending on elementary, middle, high), I would teach at a parochial or private school.
The Jefferson County school system is more than satisfactory compared with most other large city systems. Your children will have a choice of three or so schools and at least one will be, in my opinion, above average. My children go to Greathouse and Barret so I'm a bit spoiled, however, they went to Norton and that was fine also.
The Jefferson County school system is more than satisfactory compared with most other large city systems. Your children will have a choice of three or so schools and at least one will be, in my opinion, above average. My children go to Greathouse and Barret so I'm a bit spoiled, however, they went to Norton and that was fine also.
Yes, exactly! You won the lottery. How many children win the lottery?
What JCPS can't and won't guarantee is where a newcomer's child will attend. Oldham is a superior district wide educational system. JCPS has some excellent schools, but if I could cherry pick, I too would be able to show phenominal reports. If one takes the excellent JCPS schools, and balances them against any OC school, OC will hold its own.
The Jefferson County school system is more than satisfactory compared with most other large city systems. Your children will have a choice of three or so schools and at least one will be, in my opinion, above average. My children go to Greathouse and Barret so I'm a bit spoiled, however, they went to Norton and that was fine also.
Tomocox constantly acts as if getting into a good school in JCPS is like winning the lottery. Since you have children in the system, do you agree with this statement (I believe it to be a myth).
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