Is Louisville Southern or Midwestern? (Okolona, Fairdale: area, cities, island)

[censusdata]

I don't think it has to have anything to do with the Civil War. Most of the Appalachian South was pro Union, include my ancestors in the hills of Eastern KY and Casey County (which is also hilly and never developed a plantation system). 90% of my "Southern" ancestors fought for the Union, one dying at Vicksburg. Union doesn't always = Yankee.

[EricOldTime]

Originally Posted by censusdata

I don't think it has to have anything to do with the Civil War. Most of the Appalachian South was pro Union, include my ancestors in the hills of Eastern KY and Casey County (which is also hilly and never developed a plantation system). 90% of my "Southern" ancestors fought for the Union, one dying at Vicksburg. Union doesn't always = Yankee.

That's true, quite a few southern men from east Tennessee, western NC, northern Georgia and Alabama fought for the Union. Not all counties in Tennessee voted for secession, North Carolina either, it was the same in other southern states. It's not as cut and dry as folks might think, just like any political issue.

The late, famous appalachian folk balladeer, banjo player and singer from east Tennessee "Frank Profitt" talked about his father ( who was over 100 years old when he died years ago ) and a civil war veteren talking about several local boys and himself who left Tennessee and fought for the Union army against the evils of open rebellion and secession. He mentions how most of the folks in the county he lived in east Tennessee ( near Knoxville and south of Kingsport ) and surrounding counties had ancestors that fought with the Union and were southern, and also understood southern greivances, yet were against the overall secessionist movement and likewise fought for their country.

Just like many folks throughout Kentucky in those days.....

Alot of secessionist movements in the southern states were driven by the wealthy plantation aristocracy in the south, basically an "elitist minority". The fact of the matter, the average southern frontiersmen couldnt own slaves and many of them were "very" angry with the secession of their home states.

[otterhere]

When asked this question, I think in terms of culture (such as interests, social patterns, etc.) rather than the Civil War. But that's just me! In my experience, in the "southern" parts of Kentucky, hobbies include watching sports on TV and hanging out at home with the family -- not to use the derogatory word "clan" -- with a highlight being perhaps eating at a chain restaurant or shopping at the mall or big box. The urban center of Louisville is more culturally sophisticated - with ballet, symphony, theater - and it's socially acceptable to be single and/or childless and cultivate ties outside the family. Just a personal snapshot there!

[EricOldTime]

Originally Posted by otterhere

When asked this question, I think in terms of culture (such as interests, social patterns, etc.) rather than the Civil War. But that's just me! In my experience, in the "southern" parts of Kentucky, hobbies include watching sports on TV and hanging out at home with the family -- not to use the derogatory word "clan" -- with a highlight being perhaps eating at a chain restaurant or shopping at the mall or big box. The urban center of Louisville is more culturally sophisticated - with ballet, symphony, theater - and it's socially acceptable to be single and/or childless and cultivate ties outside the family. Just a personal snapshot there!

I love it: cultural sophistication automatically = ballet, symphony, or theatre....let me guess should we add art, wine tasting as well? You left those out LOL: Ohh such superiority, such grandeur!! If ONLY I could aspire to be equally so!


I have news for you, "culture" is relative. Everyone has different ideas regarding culture. Just like countless others, I don't really personally like ballet, nor am I a big fan of smyphony or really theatre that much either. Of course they aren't bad things in and "of" themselves, great things actually. Yet, what I can glean from the tone of your comment is that anyone who doesn't espouse those standards of "culture" is somehow cultureless and insignificant, just not sophisticated enough? I don't like those things, guess I'm not culturally sophisticated.....do you get my point?

Hopefully some of us some day can rise to such higher standards!

If this is how you TRULY believe, than with all due respect, "get over yourself already"

Culture goes way beyond ballet, theatre or symphony....

Besides, don't you think there's plenty of people in Louisville that have hobbies including watching sports on TV and hanging out at home with the family? People all over america across many demographics enjoy many chain restaraunts and shopping. Oh wait restaraunts....that's right....how could I forget... "No CAVIAR?" Well, in that case you'll just have to pass right?!LOL

I forgot to add "caviar" to the list up top ( cultural sophistication ) I left that one out, sorry!

I mean, that's just being people period. That's what alot of families do...I just don't really understand your point, it's a weak argument.

What does this have to do with a south/midwest divide?....what's really going on, what's your point?

[otterhere]

I said "in my experience." YMMV.

You're in Argentina?

[EricOldTime]

Originally Posted by otterhere

I said "in my experience." YMMV.

You're in Argentina?

I don't know what "YMMV" means....remember I'm not "culturally sophisticated" enough so I'll need you to explain that to a little person like me.

It's not your personal experience I'm concerned about, it's your condescending logic..........read your comment, the tone, read the way it's worded and take a look at how you come across. Tell me you didn't realize it?

Ok, so you don't: Go shopping, watch TV or Sports, go to chain restaurants....you don't do ANY of that? And what makes ballet, symphony or theatre somehow more superior to anything else you mentioned? Well, it doesn't, they are just aquired tastes, tastes that frankly not everyone shares.....

You may not share their same interests or even lifestyle, but that hardly makes you better or more superior to anyone that does because you "do".


The oddest part of all was that you were more concerned with the fact that using the term "clan" was going to be somehow derrogatory and offend someone or not?

strange....


Yes I am in Argentina right now...

[Ball freak]

Saying Louisville is Midwestern is like saying St. Louis and Cincinnati are Southern. As someone who has been to all three cities I can tell you that Louisville culturally and linguistically is a Southern city and the other two are culturally and linguistically Midwestern. Louisville obviously has demographics resembling a Midwest city and industry that is half Southern half Midwestern. I would argue Louisville to be Southern with Midwest influences as with Lexington being the same. Both are Southern cities to me.

[McDougal66]

Originally Posted by censusdata

I don't think it has to have anything to do with the Civil War. Most of the Appalachian South was pro Union, include my ancestors in the hills of Eastern KY and Casey County (which is also hilly and never developed a plantation system). 90% of my "Southern" ancestors fought for the Union, one dying at Vicksburg. Union doesn't always = Yankee.

True, there was definintely Union support there.

Speaking of eastern KY, you've probably seen this, but if you haven't, I highly recommend the 1976 documentary, Harlan County USA. Amazing film that I watched only recently (and should have watched years ago). Amazing snapshot of working life there at that time.

[censusdata]

Originally Posted by McDougal66

True, there was definintely Union support there.

Speaking of eastern KY, you've probably seen this, but if you haven't, I highly recommend the 1976 documentary, Harlan County USA. Amazing film that I watched only recently (and should have watched years ago). Amazing snapshot of working life there at that time.

My dad was born and raised in Harlan Co (outside Cumberland) to a coal mining family. I've heard stories about the terrible work conditions. I complain about my job because I often have to work 48 hours a week at a comfortable computer, they complained because people died all the time and were paid nothing while the CEO was filthy rich. Supposed some of my relatives back then were actively involved in the union movement, one was rumored to be a hit man who "took out" anyone who voted Republican/ anti union. My dad's side remains devoted Democrats to this day. I have an intensely racist aunt in Cincinnati who still voted for Obama and got in arguments with her Republican husband who often complained about him. Guess she hates Republicans more than Blacks.

[Ball freak]

Louisville is culturally and linguistically more similar to Nashville than Cincinnati or Indianapolis. Definitely Southern with Midwest influences.