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Old 12-18-2014, 08:51 AM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,476,450 times
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I do agree w/o TC that Kentucky is politically backwards and has a lot more corruption than Indiana (or most states other than Louisiana). It's like comparing Germany to Italy. KY mismanages pensions, etc and then gets bailed out by the feds. Indiana does things more responsibly. And good luck getting any logical legislation approved or big projects. It took decades longer than needed to get a new arena and new bridges built in Louisville and that was before the financial crisis. I'll be amazed if Rupp Arena is improved or replaced in the next 20 years.

Like the Germany vs Italy comparison KY is more scenic and has a laid back style of life that people like. Indiana people in general have better work ethic (way fewer people who chose not to work) and a better economy.
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Old 12-18-2014, 09:59 PM
 
7,070 posts, read 16,744,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomocox View Post
I sell real estate on both sides of the Ohio River.

Actually, just for the record, the Kentucky/Northwest Territory line was the 1792 low water mark of the Ohio River. The river is a living body of water, and it changes shorelines with regularity. Example, Ellis Park, a horse racing track on the northern side of the current channel of the Ohio River, is fully in Kentucky.

Now back to the ranch, there are significant differences in the people of Kentucky and S. Indiana. It's almost klanish. Maybe it's just the way taxes and government have affected each, or maybe it's the Germanic heritage which prevails S. Indiana vs the Anglo heritage that prevails in Kentucky. Each group have their idiosyncrasies and peculiarities. Each group has their quirks, too. They also have their appealing attributes.
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There is also flat land in Indiana. Hills hide people and what they do. Hoosiers are much more likely to be Lutheran and religiously liberal, while Kentuckians are much more likely to be Baptist and religiously conservative, although Louisville itself is one of the most Catholic communities in the nation.
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Politically, Indiana is more conservative. It's divisions are basically city vs rural. Kentucky's political divisions are essentially the mountains vs the rest. Until the US Civil War, Kentucky was noted for its educational leadership. There were great colleges here such as Centre, Transylvania, Georgetown, and the Ursulines. The Civil War tore Kentucky apart. Indiana didn't have to deal with the separate but united challenges that continue to affect Kentucky, unlike any other state in the nation.
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Indiana is much friendlier to small businesses. Kentucky is a horrible business climate, and the people suffer because small businesses can't operate with flexibility and reasonable taxation. The bureaucracy of Frankfort is stifulling.
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I love my Kentucky heritage, but hate what my grandchildren will likely face.
Tom, this is not really an accurate assessment. In metro Louisville, the biggest Hills are actually the Knobs of S. Indiana. Not even Jefferson Memorial Forest and Bernheim can compare.

The entire Louisville MSA is very strongly catholic ,and has a very long and strong German and Irish heritage, especially German. This is the same on both sides of the river, which is really just a political and psychological boundary. Trust me having lived all over when I tell you S. Indiana is much more like Louisville than it is like Indianapolis, Ft, Wayne, or even Cincinnati for that matter.

Both Louisville and S. Indiana have a strong Anglo/Baptist influence too, and much of this is from Post WWII relocations to the area from rural west and eastern KY (i.e yourself). Much of Louisville's African American population was historically baptist too, although 5o years ago there was a sizable African American Catholic community which has since faded. I would say this group only makes up a third of the population. The Irish/German Catholics probably used to be half the population...I would say they are around a third now as well. The other third is sort of the old money and the mix, and yes these people are often Lutheran and Presbyterian. So, a very rough estimate is 1/3 catholic (which fell from the high 40% range in the last two decades due to a weak diocese and priest scandals), 1/3 baptist, and 1/3 Lutheran/Presby. As I will talk below, there are also sizable minority groups which make these thirds technically not 33%.

Louisville in the last two decades also has a sizable Jewish and Muslim population, along with atheist, agnostic, and others. Many do not realize there are even Hindu and Buddhist temples. I would say, without looking at recent data, that Muslims and Jews combine for a small but fast growing population of around 30,000 people in the Louisville MSA. However, it is easy to divide Louisville up into the thirds as above and these smaller less than 5-10% minority groups make the actual divisions more like 27-30%, not 33%.
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Old 12-19-2014, 08:09 AM
 
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Tom, this is not really an accurate assessment. In metro Louisville, the biggest Hills are actually the Knobs of S. Indiana. Not even Jefferson Memorial Forest and Bernheim can compare.

I don't know about that, There's some PRETTY big Knobs down in Bullit County and also over in Ft Knox on the Hardin County side of Rolling Fork, then heading south down into Nelson and Marion counties over to Casey and Boyle County. Those knobs are every bit as high, if not higher in some spots than the knobs over in southern Indiana...

Although, I do realize you're talking mainly about metro Louisville. But, is the Bernheim considered part of metro Louisville? That's closer to Bardstown than Louisville?

it's interesting the "German/Catholic" connection with Louisville, everyone keeps bringing up, I guess I find it a bit suprising. My family for generations, all from Kentucky were "English Catholics" as well as most of the other families from the area. We originally came from Washington/Nelson/Marion counties, fairly close to Louisville.....most of the Catholic heritage from those areas comes from southern Maryland and the Virginia tidewater areas along the Potomac river.....mine included. I just assumed because of proximity Louisville catholics were the same. The main flux of my people came to central Kentucky up the wilderness road to the Loretto/Raywick Kentucky area in 1790, but some of my Maryland Catholic ancestors came down the river to the "falls of the ohio" on flatboats and then traveled down an old "wilderness pike" from Louisville through Lebanon Junction and settled around "Balltown" in Nelson county. Some also went over to around Springfield in Washington county.

Even so, the catholic people I'm used to from Kentucky, and in my family are VERY different from catholics in other parts of the US that I've esperienced. In some ways similar but in more ways different.

Last edited by EricOldTime; 12-19-2014 at 08:17 AM..
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Old 12-21-2014, 04:44 PM
 
7,070 posts, read 16,744,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOldTime View Post
Tom, this is not really an accurate assessment. In metro Louisville, the biggest Hills are actually the Knobs of S. Indiana. Not even Jefferson Memorial Forest and Bernheim can compare.

I don't know about that, There's some PRETTY big Knobs down in Bullit County and also over in Ft Knox on the Hardin County side of Rolling Fork, then heading south down into Nelson and Marion counties over to Casey and Boyle County. Those knobs are every bit as high, if not higher in some spots than the knobs over in southern Indiana...

Although, I do realize you're talking mainly about metro Louisville. But, is the Bernheim considered part of metro Louisville? That's closer to Bardstown than Louisville?

it's interesting the "German/Catholic" connection with Louisville, everyone keeps bringing up, I guess I find it a bit suprising. My family for generations, all from Kentucky were "English Catholics" as well as most of the other families from the area. We originally came from Washington/Nelson/Marion counties, fairly close to Louisville.....most of the Catholic heritage from those areas comes from southern Maryland and the Virginia tidewater areas along the Potomac river.....mine included. I just assumed because of proximity Louisville catholics were the same. The main flux of my people came to central Kentucky up the wilderness road to the Loretto/Raywick Kentucky area in 1790, but some of my Maryland Catholic ancestors came down the river to the "falls of the ohio" on flatboats and then traveled down an old "wilderness pike" from Louisville through Lebanon Junction and settled around "Balltown" in Nelson county. Some also went over to around Springfield in Washington county.

Even so, the catholic people I'm used to from Kentucky, and in my family are VERY different from catholics in other parts of the US that I've esperienced. In some ways similar but in more ways different.
Your family and their descendants were the FIRST wave of the Catholics into the area and are completely different from the next wave. Your wave started coming at the end of the 1700s through the pre Civil War era. The first wave of Catholics settled in and around Bardstown. At the time, it was the first diocese in the "west," and the largest concentration of Catholics west of the original 13 colonies. Indeed many of the first settlers had been living in Northern Virginia and Maryland which was a refuge for Catholics of the era.

The Catholics I am talking about came over during the Prussian Wars and they came through World War I as they foresaw the changes coming in Germany, etc. These Catholics moved into the CITY of Louisville, and at the time, it was COMPLETLEY separate from Bardstown (the two cities, with sprawl, are now growing into each other in modern times). The Irish came for similar political/religious reasons, especially after the Great Potato Famine of the mid 1800s. So, the wave I am talking about came from around 1850 to 1920, but came in DROVES to Louisville in the 1860s-1890s. This was Louisville's (second, the first being the Steamboat era) heyday, and many of its great churches and architectural wonders were created by skilled German craftsman during that time.

As for the hills, I guess its debatable, but someone said Indiana is flat. Yes, northern/Central Indiana is flat, but S. Indiana has more rolling hills, and steep cliffs going down to the river than KY.
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Old 12-21-2014, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Louisville KY Metro area
4,826 posts, read 14,312,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Your family and their descendants were the FIRST wave of the Catholics into the area and are completely different from the next wave. Your wave started coming at the end of the 1700s through the pre Civil War era. The first wave of Catholics settled in and around Bardstown. At the time, it was the first diocese in the "west," and the largest concentration of Catholics west of the original 13 colonies. Indeed many of the first settlers had been living in Northern Virginia and Maryland which was a refuge for Catholics of the era.

The Catholics I am talking about came over during the Prussian Wars and they came through World War I as they foresaw the changes coming in Germany, etc. These Catholics moved into the CITY of Louisville, and at the time, it was COMPLETLEY separate from Bardstown (the two cities, with sprawl, are now growing into each other in modern times). The Irish came for similar political/religious reasons, especially after the Great Potato Famine of the mid 1800s. So, the wave I am talking about came from around 1850 to 1920, but came in DROVES to Louisville in the 1860s-1890s. This was Louisville's (second, the first being the Steamboat era) heyday, and many of its great churches and architectural wonders were created by skilled German craftsman during that time.

As for the hills, I guess its debatable, but someone said Indiana is flat. Yes, northern/Central Indiana is flat, but S. Indiana has more rolling hills, and steep cliffs going down to the river than KY.
Once again, you are wrong. While the Rowans, of Federal Hill, came to Western Kentucky likely as Catholics, all the Rowans of subsequent generations were Baptist. (Graveyards in Ohio County don't reconstruct history). The Cox's of Coxs Creek came as and are Baptist. (Coxs Creek Baptist Church has the evidence)
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Best not speak of what you only assume.
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:22 PM
 
7,070 posts, read 16,744,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomocox View Post
Once again, you are wrong. While the Rowans, of Federal Hill, came to Western Kentucky likely as Catholics, all the Rowans of subsequent generations were Baptist. (Graveyards in Ohio County don't reconstruct history). The Cox's of Coxs Creek came as and are Baptist. (Coxs Creek Baptist Church has the evidence)
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Best not speak of what you only assume.
What the heck do Rowan's and Cox's have to do with anything (who are they?)? Tom, congratulations you know the history of your rural home county, population 23k. It is irrelevant to this discussion. This is negative trolling at its finest and this will stay for all to realize it will not be tolerated here.
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Old 12-22-2014, 06:15 AM
 
1,394 posts, read 2,247,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
Your family and their descendants were the FIRST wave of the Catholics into the area and are completely different from the next wave. Your wave started coming at the end of the 1700s through the pre Civil War era. The first wave of Catholics settled in and around Bardstown. At the time, it was the first diocese in the "west," and the largest concentration of Catholics west of the original 13 colonies. Indeed many of the first settlers had been living in Northern Virginia and Maryland which was a refuge for Catholics of the era.

The Catholics I am talking about came over during the Prussian Wars and they came through World War I as they foresaw the changes coming in Germany, etc. These Catholics moved into the CITY of Louisville, and at the time, it was COMPLETLEY separate from Bardstown (the two cities, with sprawl, are now growing into each other in modern times). The Irish came for similar political/religious reasons, especially after the Great Potato Famine of the mid 1800s. So, the wave I am talking about came from around 1850 to 1920, but came in DROVES to Louisville in the 1860s-1890s. This was Louisville's (second, the first being the Steamboat era) heyday, and many of its great churches and architectural wonders were created by skilled German craftsman during that time.

As for the hills, I guess its debatable, but someone said Indiana is flat. Yes, northern/Central Indiana is flat, but S. Indiana has more rolling hills, and steep cliffs going down to the river than KY.
I didn't realize that about the German people. Actually, I was told that when my family settled down around "Rolling Fork" it was pretty much wilderness! They felled all those huge Oaks, Hickories, Poplars, Sycamores by hand and some of the trees were absolutely immense. They received the land as gift from Congress for their assistance during the war of independance. My other Catholic ancestors came because there was no longer enough land to support all of the family back in Maryland so they headed west to central Kentucky because they heard the clay there was also good for Tobacco, just like in southern Maryland.

You say "in and around" Bardstown and that's entirely accurate. I had ancestors near "Balltown" in South central Nelson county, as well as near Springfield over in Washington County and Loretto/Holy Cross/Raywick Kentucky in western Marion county, near the Nelson county line. My great great grandfather's homeplace is just a few miles outside of Raywick Kentucky on the banks of the "Rolling Fork". One of my very distant cousins still owns the farm and completely restored and "lives" in the original cabin that my great greats and his grandfather was born in....it's still there....

These days my most immediate kin is all in western Kentucky, east/south east of Owensboro in Daviess/Hancock/Ohio counties....

Even so that belt of knobs plunges pretty deep into Kentucky and some of those hills down in southern Bullit county going into Nelson county, to me they're pretty much mountains.
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Old 12-22-2014, 06:35 AM
 
Location: U.S.
9,510 posts, read 9,087,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbtornado View Post
Hey everyone!

I'm from Kansas City and we have a town where the state line of Kansas and Missouri basically go down the middle of it. I am wondering what your take is on Louisville's situation with a metro with the state line going through it. Do you think the states compete against each other to improve the area or hurt it? Do you see it as an advantage or disadvantage? Do you really like one state and dislike another? Kansas City has had issues with companies jumping from one state to another and not moving far to have companies get free tax breaks and not increase jobs in the overall region so one state could "gain" jobs
Getting back to the OPs question...the Indiana side has been more businesses friendly along with the countries outside of Jefferson co (Louisville) to mainly avoid the city's 2.5% labor tax. Kentucky has large warehouses such as Zappos, Amazon, and Best buy' s national 'geek squad'. Similar Indiana has companies as well as home to a Census bureau processing center. Companies here are not jumping across the river to avoid taxes yet keep the same workforce.
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Old 12-22-2014, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
8,980 posts, read 17,290,716 times
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Originally Posted by Peter1948 View Post
For some unknown reasons, Scott Co Indiana was removed from the MSA in 2010. I make no sense of this other than Indiana does weird manipulations to their definitions to make Indianapolis seem larger than it is.
Metro definitions are done by the census bureau. It has nothing to do with "Indiana does weird manipulations to their definitions to make Indianapolis seem larger than it is".
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Old 12-22-2014, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Louisville Area
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Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
The Kentucky side dominates economically, population / population growth, and is home to pretty much every major important institution - universities, museums, hospitals, airport, etc.
Louisville: University of Louisville, JCTC, Bellarmine, Spalding.
Southern Indiana: Purdue (technology), Indiana University (south), Ivy Tech.

Those are the major ones, and Southern Indiana has plenty, and they work reciprocally with the KY side schools for in-state tuition, etc.
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