Up for a challenge? What's left after unsafe zips and flood plains? (Jackson: crimes, safe area)

[missymomof3]

Originally Posted by stx12499

Historically, the west end was a very nice area until the white flight of the 1950's and 60's.

That is true, my grandparents started out there before moving to the Shively area about 45 years ago.

[frankmaraschino]

Originally Posted by tomocox

Actually, Louisville built where it flooded first. The Highlands, Crescent Hill and eastward are all relatively new developments. Old Louisville was built in the flats while Crescent Hill was just a suburb.

Pardon me, I wrote imprecisely. I meant that the city was built correlating wealth to how prone an area was to flooding, not chronologically. I would imagine, however, that Old Louisville was laid out far away from the river, whereas Portland is not, for a reason.

[tomocox]

Bit of river geology/history here. As odd as this might sound, most river banks are actually higher near the river channel, than 1/4-1 mile away. This is why Portland seldom flooded prior to construction of the flood wall following the 1937 Great Ohio River Flood and of course its early (1780-1850) development. It was the flood that pushed people out of west Louisville instead of white flight which leads to the famous chicken or egg argument. Yes, one can say the wealthy built in the eastern hills (Crescent Hill, St. Matthews, Highlands) but these people, of course with exception, were not the rich, but rather the first Yuppies living along the rails. An interurban train ran as far as LaGrange once, therefore the building of Lyndon, Anchorage, Pewee Valley, etc.

[Windwalker]

Interesting how all these factors come together historically.

My parents lived in a town in lower Alabama where black folks were relegated to the flood-prone areas while the white folks lived further away from the levee that broke every generation or so.

Then the good Christians prided themselves on helping the poor blacks out after the flood, rebuilding their shanties and giving them their cast-off clothes, all the while refusing to let them live anywhere else. Though illegal, of course, shunning worked wonders to keep things segregated. And this was in the 1980's and 90's!

How DOES race play into all this? White flight leaves with affluence and mobility, leaving all the flood plains to black folks happy to move into better areas only to find everyone else leaving? (Of course, I realize such things take years and are so slow they're often not seen at the time.)

[tomocox]

Originally Posted by Windwalker

Interesting how all these factors come together historically.

My parents lived in a town in lower Alabama where black folks were relegated to the flood-prone areas while the white folks lived further away from the levee that broke every generation or so.

Then the good Christians prided themselves on helping the poor blacks out after the flood, rebuilding their shanties and giving them their cast-off clothes, all the while refusing to let them live anywhere else. Though illegal, of course, shunning worked wonders to keep things segregated. And this was in the 1980's and 90's!

How DOES race play into all this? White flight leaves with affluence and mobility, leaving all the flood plains to black folks happy to move into better areas only to find everyone else leaving? (Of course, I realize such things take years and are so slow they're often not seen at the time.)

Windwalker, if I respond to what you wrote, I will sound bigotted and racist. People often accuse me of reading anger into peoples words. Your second paragraph does read to me as somewhat painted with anger at Christians. While I certainly see your point of view, I think you over exaggerate the situation. Instead of saying a racial charged accusation, why can't you look at why modern American people of any race, including whites are poor while other American's of any race, including blacks are more affluent.

It is time we stop charging racial prejudices and truly look at the cancers that invade societies preventing healthy living. For every black person living in the "water safe" area's of western Louisville, I will count a terribly poor white person living in rural poverty stricken Kentucky.

[Windwalker]

There is some anger at the injustice of the situation from a Christian point of view. Lamentably, it's not exaggerated, which, I know, is hard to believe in this day and age. But there it is, which will not shock poor African Americans or poor folks of any ethnicity.

Things are a little too racially charged right now on this board, as I see in another post. As you say, racial issues are indeed quite complicated, seriously intertwined with economic issues and the deep hurt that comes with the rejection of who one is.

It's hard to say anything about race or religion in an "objective" forum where folks can't hear tone of voice or really know who we are and what our life commitments are. I'm about as hardcore Christian as you can get, which no one knows here, so I feel I need to be quite critical when I see such injustice in the Lord's name. I count myself among those I critique, which, again, you do not know, so cannot read that.

In my white opinion, the economic issues are more problematic than race at this point in America. But the history of perceptions continue. Which is why we need a forum where we can be honest and respectful of one another, which I see you doing.

So I appreciate your gentle admonishment. We all need to understand our perceptions of reality are not necessarily others' reality at all and learn to negotiate a shared reality where all can be respected and thrive.

[tomocox]

Windwalker, you got a rep! I am wonderfully glowing after reading your last post. Few people have grabbed what I feel you and I totally understand. I appreciate you!

[Windwalker]

Aw, shucks!

Thanks.

[frankmaraschino]

Originally Posted by Windwalker

In my white opinion, the economic issues are more problematic than race at this point in America.

As white people who have the legacy of voluntary immigration to America, we are afforded the luxury of being able to distance ourselves from race as an issue. Others may have a harder time with that.

[tomocox]

Frank, racism operates right to left and left to right. It goes up, it goes down, and even diagonally. A person's skin color is determined at conception (unless your name is Michael Jackson). Because of a person's skin color there should never ever be judgement. That being said, many people chose to behave according to the traditions of many within their birth race. It is this choice that causes stereotyping and culturalization, leading to voting choices creating political parties and so on.

When a person choses to vote for a person based on skin color, sex, home country of origin (we see this all through Europe), then we have a form of racism in the voting booth.

Unfortunately, many candidates emotionalize and hype their "political agenda" to encourage racial voting.

We must stop racism in everything we do.