City, Suburb, Exurb... (Louisville, Frankfort, Bardstown: credit, houses, neighborhood)

[tomocox]

Whoa, horses.... I am not interested in blacktopping all of Oldham County by any means!!!! Actually, I detest the sprawl, but Oldham County is pretty much ruined as an agricultural economy. Every house built in Oldham is one less built farther out from downtown Louisville.

I think most people here fail to recognize the value of a genuine country life. Yes, its 2008, and things have changed. I don't think anyone has insulted country kids on this thread, but I do think the OP failed to recognize the fine attributes most country kids have vs those of city kids and I am not speaking of a particular area of town.

[missymomof3]

One of the biggest reasons I will probably one day move out of Louisville is that I want alot of land. I am a country girl at heart. My grandpa helped raise me and he is and always will be a good ol' boy. I love nature, love small town values and people. Louisville is a great place, don't get me wrong, but I am just much of a city dweller. Heck, I am in the country almost every weekend as it is! Just call me old fashioned but I want a very traditional life.

[censusdata]

Most suburbs small towns today have been taken over by McDonalds and Wal Mart and corporate apartments. To me, the only place that small town, Main Street America still exists is in urban areas like Old Louisville, The Highlands or Frankfort Ave.

Most suburbanites are incredibly self centered and greedy. They feel that having money gives them the right to take advantage of the poor. My family in rural KY always taught me that I am my brothers keeper, and that therefore I should help the poor, recycle, live within my means, and be content with what I already had.

[missymomof3]

Originally Posted by censusdata

Most suburbs small towns today have been taken over by McDonalds and Wal Mart and corporate apartments. To me, the only place that small town, Main Street America still exists is in urban areas like Old Louisville, The Highlands or Frankfort Ave.

Most suburbanites are incredibly self centered and greedy. They feel that having money gives them the right to take advantage of the poor. My family in rural KY always taught me that I am my brothers keeper, and that therefore I should help the poor, recycle, live within my means, and be content with what I already had.

Most is an awfully harsh word.

[springtimegirl]

LOVED, LOVED, LOVED the comments by the OP in this thread! Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Here is the situation where I live today....

High income suburb outside of Nashville

Beautiful homes on the lake, plenty of upscale shopping

Conservative churches on every corner

Highly Republican (The brand of republican where the only issue they know to speak on is abortion. They are republican because they are "pro life". Interesting how we have had a republican president for 8 years now and the abortion issue has not been overturned. I know Bush has been working extremely hard on that issue since he has been in office, but to no avail. Gimme a break!!)


This is exactly what we want to get away from when we move to Louisville. The majority of kids in this area have good manners, dress well, and are involved in way too many activites outside of school. Yet, many of those same teens are involved in underage drinking, drugs, driving too fast, and becoming promiscious sexually. They are "bored" or overworked and need an "escape" from all of the expectations....so they say. My husband and I want to offer our children a place to live where the battle of materialism and selling out their souls to be just like the other kids isn't the "cool" thing to do.

[missymomof3]

Originally Posted by springtimegirl

Yet, many of those same teens are involved in underage drinking, drugs, driving too fast, and becoming promiscious sexually. They are "bored" or overworked and need an "escape" from all of the expectations....so they say. My husband and I want to offer our children a place to live where the battle of materialism and selling out their souls to be just like the other kids isn't the "cool" thing to do.

Sweetie I am sorry but that happens here too. Sadly, this happens just about everywhere.

[kat750]

Originally Posted by censusdata

Most suburbs small towns today have been taken over by McDonalds and Wal Mart and corporate apartments. To me, the only place that small town, Main Street America still exists is in urban areas like Old Louisville, The Highlands or Frankfort Ave.

Most suburbanites are incredibly self centered and greedy. They feel that having money gives them the right to take advantage of the poor. My family in rural KY always taught me that I am my brothers keeper, and that therefore I should help the poor, recycle, live within my means, and be content with what I already had.

Im buying a 98K patio home in mt washinton soon, i have 2 10 year old hondas and have no stock portfolio. And im 30, lil late bloomer and not greedy at all.

I guess ill be a exurbanite... same thing though, hate the negativity of the city so im gone. Some people can live in their heads better than others. I cant take all the hurt i see here in town. It makes me happy to be leaving, maybe i wont have to do it again.

[missymomof3]

Originally Posted by censusdata

. My family in rural KY always taught me that I am my brothers keeper, and that therefore I should help the poor, recycle, live within my means, and be content with what I already had.

I like the Amish (I think) saying: Use it up, wear it out, make do or do without!

[Windwalker]

Beautiful OP, and I learned a new word to boot!

Since I'll be moving soon and am an academic, I am engaged in such ruminations as I contemplate where I want to settle this time. I've lived in the inner city, inner ring of city (which used to be the suburbs), suburbs, exurbs, rural life.

I must confess to having been suburb-ist. I, too, bought into the soulless depiction of suburbia, but things are different than the 1950's and 60's suburbs (in most places). I'm finding myself leaning toward suburbia now. Who'd've thunk?

I was in Louisville with my sister looking at different neighborhoods and we realized that at the end of the day we were having trouble telling one from another other than in broad categories--truly rich behind their iron fences and stone gates; McMansions where they share the iron fence and stone gates; liberal upper middle class so embarassed about making money and being part of the establishment they protested against in their youth that they live in modest (but beautiful!) homes; boho leftover hippie, artists, and intelligentsia beyond the confines of materialism; decent family neighborhoods where kids rule; po-but-proud; hard-working/hard-drinking; seen-better-days but may turn around; drug-dealing prostituting; etc. We all attempt to classify things into broader categories in order to maneuver the complexities of life.

The problem comes when we expect reality to conform to our categories. My categories are, no doubt, somewhat offensive to those I place within them because no one can be classified and categorized like a geologist's collection of rocks. We are dynamic, complex living beings who cannot be classified. Doing so renders us into a thing used by others for their own purposes. And no one wants to be an object at the mercy of others' manipulation--hence the justifiable offense.

If I had my druthers I'd be in a small cabin-like, rough but comfy house on a few acres raising wildflowers and puppies and writing and cooking a simple but good meal for whoever shows up. And of course it would be just a whiz into town for fine arts offerings and good restaurants and scintillating intelligent conversation.

But let's get real. This ain't likely to happen. What I want is utopia, which literally means "no-place."

We all want our own version of utopia, don't we? Where everyone else acts like we, the royal leaders of our utopia, want them to act. And if they don't, well, "off with their head!"

And herein lies the problem for me, lou. In our solipsistic narcissism we don't know how to let others to just be without condemnation. The city of my dreams is one where everyone is polite, respectful of others, kind, caring for neighbors, and just in the creation of social policies that benefit all instead of just those in power. But in order to have that, there does need to be some accountability when people act less than this. Harsh condemnation and critique (and I'm not saying you were harsh or condemnatory, etc.!) often create more walls, though.

We all assume words mean exactly what we say they mean and nothing else. And they don't. Though none of us means any offense to others, it occurs nonetheless.

So let's add tolerance and forgiveness and a desire to understand and appreciate the other to the list of ideal attributes in utopia.

Trying to classify folks according to real estate is to buy into (pun intended) the prevailing myth of this society that money is the measure of worth. And we all know that's bogus even as we let the economic myth set the parameters of discourse.

I'm for coming up with some new categories that don't label and castitgate the complexities of humanity. And, as you can see from my own rather perjorative labels, that's difficult. We have to communicate using words that cannot accurately describe this mysterious life in which we live together.

But it's worth the try nonetheless, so I appreciate the thoughtful post, lou!

[louroclou]

Thanks, Windwalker, for your thoughtful post and your healthy reminder of the perils of imagining 'types.' As Ralph Ellison wrote, "The mind that has conceived a pattern of living must never lose sight of the chaos against which that plan was conceived." I have always thought in terms of typology, but then revelled in the dissolution of those categories - hence my affection for 'thin-soil' intellect" -hence my love for black nerds, gay Southerners and Jews, hillbilly philosophers and scientists.

And suburban liberals.

I always started off my English classes with typologies - Jungian, Renaissance, sociological, etc. - then made the kids see with them and past them into the particular. The stereotype is not a lie, but it is ultimately a distortion and a kind of blindness. Fitzgerald said if a writer, "starts with a true character, he ends up with a type; if he starts with a type, he ends with nothing."

Place is not a Mold, but it is a Force, and it's useful to name and describe that force. I saw the force of Real Estate much stronger in Rochester than I have seen here in Louisville. Everything is transformed by Metro government. Basically, except for Anchorage, there are no suburbs - if part of the essence of 'suburbanism' is the avoidance of tax payment to the municipality you owe your livelihood, or at least the existence of your home. Here, the occupational tax gets even the exurbs somewhat off the hook.

At least for the economic/financial question. The social question of valuing the poor and the 'other' is another. The ecological question of fuel consumption, and pollution by insecticide and herbicide is another... as is the destruction of farmland and farm life and the small regional farmer.

I love the mix and mess of cities. I love the likelihood of revelation and epiphany in that mess. For others, the mess drowns out the message, and I fully understand that. It is all a fascinating question, and I appreciate your personal attempt at an answer. It is the kind of dialogue I really wanted to start.