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There is not one socialist busing program that works in this country.
The Raleigh program apparently was working at the time of the 2000 census, based on these numbers. It might be the exception, and it might not be working anymore. I guess I could post questions about it at the Raleigh/Durham forum.
I think its safe to say that it is not working in Louisville/Jefferson County, and, if the exeperience of northern cities are any indication, this is going to have a negative impact on real estate in Jefferson County, more on the lower and mid ranges of the housing market there. It will eventually effect property values. It will certainly effect housing purchase decisions for families relocating into this area from, say, the Midwest and Northeast.
One thing I've noticed is that many people that relocate here from the Midwest/Northeast pay much less in property taxes, thus freeing up more money for parochial education, not to mention an overall lower cost of living once they arrive. I think because of these factors, Louisville is less likely to decline as rapidly as the other northern cities you referenced, because although private education isn't cheap, it is abundant within Louisville. I haven't noticed significant white flight from Louisville as residents, just as students in the public school system.
Jeff,
You are absolutely correct. It just blows my mind how ignorant this county leadership or lack of leadership really seems to be. If it is not ignorance it must be arrogance.
Why in the world would you force the highest tax payers or any potential tax payer out of the county and loose this tax base ? I’m soon to be one of them. Sure someone will make the argument I purchased a home in Jefferson County, but the real question should be how many tax payers have they (the county) lost because the home owner decided not to buy in Jefferson County.
It’s the mentality of people like jclaude which continue to perpetuate the problem instead of facing the hard truth and the real problem at hand.
Where are the statistics to support this assertion that busing kids around benefit’s anyone? It is the biggest scam in Kentucky? It’s all about the dollar and not the kids. Do you honestly believe attending school in a district outside your home area will change your behavior, provide you leadership, motivation, the will to overcome adversity, pleaseeeeeeee. How about teaching a parent not to hit the crack pipe or smoke Meth, go back to school, be an example for your children, teach them about work and how not to take government hand outs generation after generation.
And to Jclaude, I’m not a Republican, Democrat or Tea Party Member, just a hard working American who dug himself out of poverty. Never asked or took any hand outs from the Government. Served this country faithfully with a twenty-year military career. Stood side by side with blacks, whites, Hispanics, male and females. You as a person are driving your own train in life. If you choose to stay at the bottom as a bottom feeder, that’s by choice and it sad to say most of the bottom feeders are content with the crumbs the government hands out.
RALEIGH, N.C. — When Rosemarie Wilson moved her family to a wealthy suburb of Raleigh a couple of years ago, the biggest attraction was the prestige of the local public schools. Then she started talking to neighbors.
Don’t believe the hype, they warned. Many were considering private schools. All pointed to an unusual desegregation policy, begun in 2000, in which some children from wealthy neighborhoods were bused to schools in poorer areas, and vice versa, to create economically diverse classrooms.
“Children from the 450 houses in our subdivision were being bused all across the city,” said Ms. Wilson, for whom the final affront was a proposal by the Wake County Board of Education to send her two daughters to schools 17 miles from home.
So she vented her anger at the polls, helping elect four new Republican-backed education board members last fall. Now in the majority, those board members are trying to make good on campaign promises to end Wake’s nationally recognized income-based busing policy.
..and the board just passed a resolution moving to neighborhood schools Which, I guess, leaves JCPS as the last large school system that still does this kind of bussing.
Quote:
One thing I've noticed is that many people that relocate here from the Midwest/Northeast pay much less in property taxes, thus freeing up more money for parochial education, not to mention an overall lower cost of living once they arrive. I think because of these factors, Louisville is less likely to decline as rapidly as the other northern cities you referenced, because although private education isn't cheap, it is abundant within Louisville. I haven't noticed significant white flight from Louisville as residents, just as students in the public school system.
I'm not sure the light bulb has went on yet.
There is a concept re white flight called the tipping point, after which change happens rapidly. At this point we may not be past it. When JCPS becomes majority/minority and they are still bussing is when there might be an impact on the real estate market; this will vary, with the more prosperous areas holding value since the families there can afford to send their kids private.
I think we are already seeing departure to surrounding counties (as well as, perhaps, relocators choosing these counties) based on the census information I mapped in this post (which generated some testy responses). So these places will become even more in demand once JCPS approaches and passes it's tipping point.
One reason I think "Louisville Metro" isn't at this tipping point yet is one still sees new development going on around the county, in places towards that Floyds Fork greenway or park belt, Norton Common, even in Valley Station. So there is still a demand for housing...new housing... in Jefferson County at this point in time. Whether this will continue is an open question.
I've seen situations in Ohio where suburban areas just stop dead in their tracks after the school system becomes majority/minority: subdivisions remain incomplete, real estate markets stall, land becomes dead, shopping centers never finish, etc. As a worst case this could happen in the more average or middle class areas of Jefferson County, in other words the areas outside of the East End.
Speaking as a parent that recently moved the the area I will tell you that the busing situation in Jefferson Cnty steered us away from purchasing a home there. We moved from CT where our kids went to not only one of the best school systems in the state, but in the country. There was no way I was going to roll the dice with my kids education. Now, having said that, I can't say I'm overly impressed with Oldham County schools yet either. But I'm quite sure they are 100% better than the Jefferson system. What benefit is it to a child to be driven across town, spend 2 hrs on a bus and then go to a lesser school than what is in their own neighborhood? And for the child being bused out of the "bad" neighborhood, they can go to the best school in the world but if there is not parental involvement and emphasis put on education at home, it doesn't matter.
Like I said time and time again, This county is out of control and does not want to deal with reality. Of course white kids are going to private schools if the parents can afford it. The public schools have re-distributed the non-contributors of society all across the county school system to place everyone on an even playing field. What happens when we do this? We now teach at the lowest or slowest level to accommodate the non-contributors of our society, so you child who may have potential to excel is stuck in the slow lane as life passes by. Parent who send their children to private schools are playing right into the hands of the government because now your tax money you pay for the school system is a benefit you pay for but do not receive any benefit, guess who benefits? the non-contributors. I don't blame them one bit because family takes priority over politics and the resistance does not out weigh the benefit of fighting. Socialism at it best. "The problem with socialism is at some time and point we run out of other peoples money" "M. Thatcher"
In that case, here is a question for you: What about the child who wants to learn, who is that spark, who wants something better but does not have the resources to attend private school, such as the money? I don't see anyone speaking for those people who want to do better. What happens to those kids? You just let them sink along with the persons who aren't doing anything good? What about the kids who are stuck in the public schools due to financial issues? I say a magnet school would work better.
And for the child being bused out of the "bad" neighborhood, they can go to the best school in the world but if there is not parental involvement and emphasis put on education at home, it doesn't matter.
This is why its possible to get a good education in JCPS if one goes to the specialized schools. My sister went to Male Traditional School (when it was still in the old Male building) and my nephew went to Brandeis and is going to Myzeek, schools with an emphasis on maths and science. He seems to be getting a good education. But the reason why is that he and the other kids in this school have parents who are motivated to see their kids do well, and the school has dedicated teachers and a tough principal.
You see a similar situation here in Dayton, with Stivers (the basis for St Ives High School in the old Steve Canyon comic strip, for you old-timers). Stivers is a arts high school, for performing and visual arts. Its part of one of the worst performing school districts in Ohio, but is one of the best schools in Ohio, because of the students and faculty it draws.
The problem is you can't really reproduce this for every school. Its almost like you want do this special school approach for the other end of the spectrum, to segregate the low performers and troublesome students into special schools where they get intensive redmedial education, as much social work as education.
Speaking as a parent that recently moved the the area I will tell you that the busing situation in Jefferson Cnty steered us away from purchasing a home there. We moved from CT where our kids went to not only one of the best school systems in the state, but in the country. There was no way I was going to roll the dice with my kids education. Now, having said that, I can't say I'm overly impressed with Oldham County schools yet either. But I'm quite sure they are 100% better than the Jefferson system. What benefit is it to a child to be driven across town, spend 2 hrs on a bus and then go to a lesser school than what is in their own neighborhood? And for the child being bused out of the "bad" neighborhood, they can go to the best school in the world but if there is not parental involvement and emphasis put on education at home, it doesn't matter.
I completely agree. I am moving to louisville from the best school district in my state. We've been looking at higher end homes etc. then to find out about the school district. . .there is no way we will purchase a home in Jefferson County. We will aim for Oldham county but in reality mostly because of the school system we are trying to change jobs to stay here. Its really sad that we decided to accept a position in Louisville Ky but it doesn't offer us the opportunity to have a home and send the kids to a decent school. Who invests in a home without knowing what school the children will go to? My tax dollars will go somewhere else. Changes have to be made or all the real estate will go down. I've noticed alot of the homes for sale have been on the market for 200+ days. crazy even in todays economy for a city like louisville to have houses on the market that long--probably due to the school system.
I completely agree. I am moving to louisville from the best school district in my state. We've been looking at higher end homes etc. then to find out about the school district. . .there is no way we will purchase a home in Jefferson County. We will aim for Oldham county but in reality mostly because of the school system we are trying to change jobs to stay here. Its really sad that we decided to accept a position in Louisville Ky but it doesn't offer us the opportunity to have a home and send the kids to a decent school. Who invests in a home without knowing what school the children will go to? My tax dollars will go somewhere else. Changes have to be made or all the real estate will go down. I've noticed alot of the homes for sale have been on the market for 200+ days. crazy even in todays economy for a city like louisville to have houses on the market that long--probably due to the school system.
Tens of thousands of parents send their children to Jeff. County public schools every day. Honestly, if you are a parent who gets involved in your children's school and schoolwork, the education won't be a problem. And most parents I know who send their kids to JCPS have no problems getting their children into schools close to their homes. If you live in the East End, most schools (elementary, middle, and high) are pretty good. (I can't speak for the rest of the county) Like another poster has said in a different thread, if JCPS was that bad, and Oldham Co. was that good, 60,000 students would be in Oldham Co. schools. While JCPS is nothing to brag about, at all, thousands of kids get a quality education every day and I wouldn't throw away moving to Louisville just because you don't like the school system. If you are that worried about it, send your kids to one of the private or parochial schools in the area. They are a strong 2nd choice and most, if not all, provide financial aid and scholarships.
I completely agree. I am moving to louisville from the best school district in my state. We've been looking at higher end homes etc. then to find out about the school district. . .there is no way we will purchase a home in Jefferson County. We will aim for Oldham county but in reality mostly because of the school system we are trying to change jobs to stay here. Its really sad that we decided to accept a position in Louisville Ky but it doesn't offer us the opportunity to have a home and send the kids to a decent school. Who invests in a home without knowing what school the children will go to? My tax dollars will go somewhere else. Changes have to be made or all the real estate will go down. I've noticed alot of the homes for sale have been on the market for 200+ days. crazy even in todays economy for a city like louisville to have houses on the market that long--probably due to the school system.
I'm sure the school system doesn't help sell homes. I don't care how invloved you are in your kids education, if the education they are receiving is not quality it's not going to make a difference. We just moved from one of the top districts/elementary/high schools in the state of CT. Moving to Jefferson Cnty would have never worked. Of course we are also use to having the town we lived in manage our schools, not a county. Not sure I like that either. If you are looking for your kids to get a decent education, you really have to go to Oldham. But, keep in mind that within Oldham Cnty there are elementary schools you wouldn't want your kids going to either. Be sure to check their rankings and scores. The best as of 2009 #'s is Buckner Elementary. There are some that you'll want to stay away from. Check SchoolDigger. Their numbers may be a year old, but they'll give you an idea. You can also get more house for money in Oldham, IMO.
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