Conservative/moderate conservatice considering a move to Madison, will I run into issues? (Milwaukee: homes, employment)

[Drewjdeg]

Originally Posted by thefragile

I'm not surprised, most suburbs & areas further from urban areas are more conservative.

Madison is A-typical in that regard. Pretty much the entire county is solidly democratic, even the rural areas. While there are some conservatives in Dane County, they don't hold any real power.

[Hans Bueller]

It is true that their are really no conservative parts of Dane county. I just meant that some of the municipalities to the north or east of Madison are more moderate. If you want to live in a conservative area near Madison you won't find one. Jefferson Co,where I live is fairly solidly Republican in all elections. It's about 30 miles from Madison. Outside of that,it's all Democrat mostly.

[mlb]

frankly, you are letting others dictate how you feel too much.

BINGO.

I'm a Madison native - and yes, a progressive - and I live in a suburb of Salt Lake City.

I find that having my values and views challenged is a healthy thing. And I've been able to bring people over from the dark side on many an occasion.

Get over yourself and find a spine. The world is a better place when we can learn to live together.

[thefragile]

Originally Posted by mlb

I find that having my values and views challenged is a healthy thing. And I've been able to bring people over from the dark side on many an occasion.

Lol. Right on!

[MovingBadger]

It always fascinates me how much more those on the left feel comfortable sharing their disdain for those that think differently. I work in a profession that is largely liberal so maybe the assumption is everyone else is also. On those rare occasions that bother to voice my disagreement the most common response is "you have to be liberal (or Democrat) you're so smart" which is a bit of insight into the liberal view of others. I find way too often that liberals are not free thinking at all - and view the other side "as stupid". I think Madison has a higher rate of that "elitist" liberal subtype that people can find so condescending

Funny thing is, I'm not a Republican either (way, way too socially liberal - which is the flip side for me - too many conservatives view the other side as "immoral" which I find just as scary) but rarely get singled out individually for my beliefs on say gay marriage by the right wing moralizers. If it came down to it I would fear say not getting offered a job more from a liberal who thought I wasn't idealogically pure than a conservative. But like I said, that may be my environment.

In Madison I think things are "amped up" a bit more with Walker (who I don't have much respect for and wouldn't vote for personally) and I think you have seen an increase in boorish behavior as a result in Madison. My guess is that this calms down quite a bit in the future. Hopefully at some point we get good leadership at both the federal and state level rather than the fools we have now - but I'm not holding my breath.

That being said, I wouldn't hesitate to move to Madison - its a great environment, especially if you are comfortable with winter. I would suspect the benefit would far outweigh any concerns, politics is probably a pretty small piece of your quality of life when you really think about it. I find ignoring the distractions associated with the dog and pony show that is political theater and focusing on what really matters (family, friends, helping others, good BBQ ribs, etc) does wonders for ones outlooks

[NomadStephanie]

I agree that it's good to have your values and views challenged. I regularly seek out experiences that challenge me to look at or think about things differently, including watching films and documentaries that relate the experience of people very different from me or force me to confront unpleasant realities; having living in different parts of the country that present different ways of life than what I grew up with; and having in depth, sometimes heated conversations with people who see things differently.

The key with the latter is whether people are open to this kind of conversation. I've been friends with many conservatives who were open to a good, challenging conversation. The problem is, where I'm from (Bristol, VA), this is a rare thing to find; the majority conservative religious and political views brook little true debate. When people aren't genuinely curious about your different point of view, but use majority social consensus to marginalize you if you don't respond to the pressure to convert to the other's position, it ends up being an endless exercise in frustration for the person with the minority view. I'm aware that liberals and conservatives can both do this.

I think that there are a few different factors that can promote a harmonious diversity of opinion in a community, one of which is the presence of a university or any other center of higher learning; the other of which is the presence of immigrant communities that have retained customs and points of view that diverge from the majority culture, and yet aren't so marginalized that there is no cultural exchange.

The extent to which I find it pointless or impossible to have a dialogue with another person seems to boil down to two different factors: (1) how much the other person's views are driven by hate or resentment, and (2) how much the other person is capable of thinking for themselves, instead of repeating the same talking points no matter how thoroughly they have been challenged by the other person. When people have a huge emotional investment in an identity aligned with a particular view, their way of responding to a debate is going to have more to do with the enactment of psychological defenses than reason, compassion, or any of the other virtues that can make for a beautiful exchange between people or the kind of insights that can change the world.

I've ran into these entrenched types on both sides of the political spectrum. On the right, there is not just homophobia, but a tendency to want to cut down those of the same or a lower socioeconomic class and avoid any criticism of the upper classes, manifesting in hatred of unions; of public service workers (often incorrectly) seen as having privileges others don't, especially teachers; people on welfare; and so forth. I find the same kind of resentful and hateful reactions on the left just as irksome, which can be directed at police, the upper classes, or social conservatives.

For example, I have a lot of problems with things wealthy business owners do that affect quality of life for workers, and don't believe conservative financial doctrines are supported by the evidence, but that doesn't mean I conclude that any wealthy person or business owner who has conservative financial views is evil or stupid. For another example, "all cops are pigs" or "all cops are saints" are equally stupid and entrenched positions. Cops are human beings and as such reflect the diversity of humanity; many different people become cops for many different reasons.

I'm seeing this "politics of hate" creep more and more into liberal media, and it turns me off just as much as when I see it in conservative media. It is different to disagree with a position or to argue against its destructive power; another to want to attribute evil intentions to everyone who holds that position. There's a distinct lack of thought or reason, a resistance to analysis that is starting to take over political discussion. This is when you get into the politics of hysterical anger and division. Where no one can talk to each other any more.

[everwinter]

Originally Posted by mlb

frankly, you are letting others dictate how you feel too much. I find that having my values and views challenged is a healthy thing. And I've been able to bring people over from the dark side on many an occasion.

Get over yourself and find a spine.

So next time someone makes a post in the Wisconsin forum (like below) asking for a liberal town, you'll tell them the same? It goes both ways, if we want to be fair. I'd expect something like - liberals looking for a liberal town should have their values & views challenged & live in a conservative town. That's the healthy thing to do.


//www.city-data.com/forum/wisco...conomowoc.html

[mlb]

Absolutely.

I've lived away from Madison for almost 40 years. I just think it's important to get out of whatever bubble you grew up in and are comfortable in - and see how other people live. Madison is no exception.

I go back to Madison and visit family - and yes, some of their political views are pretty strident - but they are not all in everyone's faces about it. I live in a very conservative Mormon community - Democrats don't have a chance here - but my views are respected (I work in government)... no one is out to lynch me because of them.

It's the tenor of the discussion that's important - and the need to see it from other points of view.

All that said, I don't think the current governor of Wisconsin is doing himself any favors by how he conducts himself. I'm amazed he's still in office.

[T0103E]

I'm as libertarian as you can get (anarcho-capitalist if I have to label it) and I've enjoyed Madison so far. I guess I'm used to being at odds with ANYONE on the political spectrum at all , so it doesn't bother me that people have different views.

[SmittyXCWRU]

I may be too late to the thread here, but I actually think Madison would be fine for you (the OP).

I share some of the same background, moderately conservative, Catholic, from a union household, early 20s, etc. and I like living in Madison quite a bit. Is it liberal? Yes. But the vast majority of people aren't so fixated on politics to where it is much of a problem for me at least. If you're really worried, just stay out of downtown and chances are no one will even mention politics. Madison has the hipster archetype sure but most of them are far more interested in local restaurants and biking than they are about the establishment. Most of the ire is directed toward Walker and perceived corporatist cronyism. I'm not sure I'd suggest stepping on to a public bus and professing an undying love for Scott Walker to total strangers but apart from that I've said lots of unpopular things to friends in public and never had the slightest problem. People in the Midwest generally leave other people alone with that sort of thing.

Additionally, since you said you were Catholic, Madison does have a lot of groups and programming for Catholic young adults. If you are looking to end up somewhere you can at least find a few people who believe in the same things, Madison is not at all a bad place to end up.

As for totalitarian local ordinances I can't think of any that have given me trouble. Before I moved here I lived in another liberal town that had a dozen or so local laws that created some personal annoyances: green space rules, tax rules, speeding, etc. and the police enforced them with incredible zeal. In Madison I've noticed the police are very reasonable about enforcing silly things and the city doesn't seem to pass any weird things that have affected me at least.

As for neighborhoods, I live in Tenney-Lapham, but it's pretty close to the last place I would recommend from the OP's description. From his posts, I think somewhere out on the west side would be best, newer apartment complexes, less liberal, away from downtown.

In all, I love Madison for its outdoor attractions, nice running trails, beautiful lakes, and fun Midwestern culture. Wisconsin as a state has some really down-to-earth aspects to it, I mean, who could hate brats and cheese? Madison's otherness, though potent, hasn't totally washed out the rest of Wisconsin's culture from the place. When I first considered moving here three years ago, I made a thread like this one and was rather intimidated by Madison's liberal reputation. There are occasional moments when I am frustrated with this town, sure, but I for one haven't regretted coming here in the slightest.

Wherever you end up, don't let the world get you down.
Pax Christi.