So THIS is roof raking....... (Ellsworth: Home Depot, cost, law)

[OutDoorNut]

Originally Posted by Zymer

Lesser of two evils- I suspect that an asphalt shingled roof might wear quicker by the snow rake (but not a metal roof) dragging on the pebbled finish, and might need to be replaced sooner.

The alternative, however, is that by doing nothing the shingles might *still* need to be replaced sooner by being lifted by water re-freezing behind the ice dam, and you could also have additional damage by water leaking into the structure underneath which could soak it and cause rot and weakening of the internal structures.

It's a heckuva lot cheaper to replace the shingles than to have to replace roof trusses and possibly wall framing as well.

So go the joys of owning your own home.

My woodshed, which is attached to the house, has a shingled roof and was not properly maintained. By the time I purchased the house and took up residence in Jan. 3 years ago it was already badly damaged, water was leaking in and the store of wood was well frozen and had to be knocked loose with a sledge-hammer (much to the dismay of a red squirrel who had taken up residence there). All of the boards under the shingles are rotted and the entire roof will have to be replaced. It was on the list of things to do this past summer but other things took precedence and pushed it off...maybe this year...maybe I'll just rebuild and enlarge the whole thing while I'm at it, and reshape the roof- the pitch is below and perpendicular to the [metal] second floor roof and the snow that slides off the second floor makes a mountain on the woodshed.

Maybe we should talk about what winters do to gutters next.

Reminds me, helpful tip I picked up: gutters with a hemispherical cross-section likely fare better than those with a square cross section, because when water in them freezes, the ice tends to rise up, whereas in the square type, the ice can press on the sides of the gutter, thereby distorting them.

I remember reading something similar about gutter drain pipes--I think that the fluted pipes better survive freezing, because the fluting allows for expansion without bursting.

But those are fine points in comparision to the general mangling gutters can take from ice and snow coming off the roof in general.

[retiredtinbender]

Originally Posted by OutDoorNut

Maybe we should talk about what winters do to gutters next.

Reminds me, helpful tip I picked up: gutters with a hemispherical cross-section likely fare better than those with a square cross section, because when water in them freezes, the ice tends to rise up, whereas in the square type, the ice can press on the sides of the gutter, thereby distorting them.

I remember reading something similar about gutter drain pipes--I think that the fluted pipes better survive freezing, because the fluting allows for expansion without bursting.

But those are fine points in comparision to the general mangling gutters can take from ice and snow coming off the roof in general.

Now you're back into physics and such. With square gutters (or anything like that, actually) the stresses wind up in the corners and basically get stuck. With rounded ones the stress has no where to stop so the ice will go in the path of least resistance.

[Submariner]

I have never raked a roof.

Some of our neighbors have shingle roofs that need raking; and others do not.

It is largely up to the home owner.

[OutDoorNut]

Originally Posted by chaosX5

Nice video provided by Outdoor Nut...........Thanks! I started a new thread so I would actually stay on topic.........






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f21TE...eature=related

Mr. Chaos would like to know how often this needs to occur.......

......also, he is concerned that doing this to a roof would potentially damage the shingles.

How often do you Mainers rake your roof?

Great video on preventing ice dams:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNHZN...eature=related

[Zymer]

Originally Posted by OutDoorNut

Maybe we should talk about what winters do to gutters next.

Reminds me, helpful tip I picked up: gutters with a hemispherical cross-section likely fare better than those with a square cross section, because when water in them freezes, the ice tends to rise up, whereas in the square type, the ice can press on the sides of the gutter, thereby distorting them.

I remember reading something similar about gutter drain pipes--I think that the fluted pipes better survive freezing, because the fluting allows for expansion without bursting.

But those are fine points in comparision to the general mangling gutters can take from ice and snow coming off the roof in general.

Yeah, I don't have any gutters (like a lot of others). Snow and ice sliding off the metal roof would probably rip them down.

[OutDoorNut]

Originally Posted by Zymer

Yeah, I don't have any gutters (like a lot of others). Snow and ice sliding off the metal roof would probably rip them down.

Having no gutters, do you get more water in your cellar?

[Zymer]

Originally Posted by OutDoorNut

Having no gutters, do you get more water in your cellar?

More? I don't know about 'more', I get some in the Spring but the whole water table is high then. Springtime is very wet here, a lot of standing water in the field and the woods; and even when it looks like it has dried up if I dig a hole 18" deep it starts to fill with water so I don't think that having gutters would mitigate it very much.

After the water table has dropped in the Summer I don't usually get any water inside, even after a hard rain. I've seen a design for gravel-filled troughs around the foundation that would catch runoff from the roof and drain it away but I'm not convinced that the effort and expense of installing them would be worthwhile. Although, it would only need to be mostly on the back of the house- the front and 2/3 of the sides are protected by a wide, roofed porch that keeps the runoff a good distance from the foundation.

I only have a crawl-space anyway, not a full cellar. There is a low spot at one end where the water collects and a sump pump to get rid of it.

[Maineah]

Originally Posted by OutDoorNut

Having no gutters, do you get more water in your cellar?

I have gutters on the front of my house and the back above my deck area. We get lots of water in the cellar. If we get more than two inches of rain I have to have the sump pump hooked up. Like Zymer in the summer it isn't so bad but in the spring or if we have a wet fall it's plenty wet down there. The cellar in my house is a full cement cellar and the water comes in between the floor and the wall in several places. I have thought of digging around the foundation and doing a positive drain like Zymer said but I can buy a lot of sump pumps for the money it would cost to make it dry. I'm still not convinced it would be dry after all of that. My FIL lives right down the road from us and spent many thousands of dollars trying to waterproof his cellar. He opted for a good sump pump with a battery back up after all was said and done. There is just a lot of water in the ground around here.
Lots of clay and the water has a hard time getting through it. We have a 300' drilled well. When it was drilled they were amazed that the water came right out of the pipe under it's own pressure for quite some time. It finally settled down and they put a fire pump on it to see if they could draw it dry. After a day or two of running the pump they could only draw it down to 8 feet. When we moved in here there was a shallow draft pump in the cellar drawing out of an artesian well pipe! It was only down 30 feet and there was no shortage of water.
Since then we replaced that old pump with a deep well pump but water is one thing we got plenty of around here.

[Verve1138]

retiredtinbender,

Since houses are designed by architects, don't you mean them? Engineers, competent ones, understand basic thermodynamics. Please don't generalize an entire profession.

[retiredtinbender]

Originally Posted by Verve1138

retiredtinbender,

Since houses are designed by architects, don't you mean them? Engineers, competent ones, understand basic thermodynamics. Please don't generalize an entire profession.

"Oh yeah, they had insulation. It just wasn't pink. And we have added some insulation over the last 100 years. Oddly enough, you can put it in an old house. Leads to less heat loss from the "envelope". The sun also melts the snow off the roof but still no ice dams, no snow overload, nothing. Matter of fact I can't remember anyone in town who had too much snow and have their roof collapse. The old timers knew what they were doing. Too many engineers involved now."

Whoops, must have heard the wrong profession at the MUBEC class. I was sure they said "design engineers"; which, thinking about it, may be an architect. Or maybe the instructor got the nomenclature incorrect. Just making the statement that things are made too complicated nowadays,. In my humble opinion.