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Personally, even though I'm a nasty conservative republican, I love the idea of replacing the internal combustion engine with a clean alternative. Give me a hydrogen fueled truck that won't explode and I'll be all over it! Make a comparibly priced electric powered truck that gets 300 miles a charge and I'll buy it. I don't drive much and I'd put up solar electric panels and charge my electric truck for free if the technology was there.......it isn't!!....and it won't be for quite some time. In the mean time I'm not going to be forced to buy a $40,000 electric box with wheels on it that will MAYBE get me to Portland and back from Freeport before I have to plug it in for another 8 hours of sucking 220 volts of electricity out of my house. Call me frugal but one thing I'm not is stupid!! The green technology is not even close to where it can replace the fossil fueled cars and trucks.
Compact flourescent bulbs should be banned as they contain mercury. Something those awful incandescent lights that use so much more power don't have. Where is the greenies outcry about that?? We lower our idiotic "Carbon Footprint" while polluting the air and water with mercury.....great tradeoff huh??
I support spending tax dollars on research and development of new energy sources through direct grants and tax incentives for companies. I do not support forcing changes that are ill conceived and hurtful to the American people or pushing us back to anything less that the convenience and comfort the current technologies have afforded us.
I very much like the idea of an electric car from the mechanical standpoint.
Think how much easier it would be to repair or replace an electric engine.
The old internal combustion engines were complex enough, but now they're even worse with all the pollution controls and computerization.
I very much like the idea of an electric car from the mechanical standpoint.
Think how much easier it would be to repair or replace an electric engine.
The old internal combustion engines were complex enough, but now they're even worse with all the pollution controls and computerization.
I agree with you whole heartedly! I honestly can't wait for electric vehicles to be the norm. I sincerely believe that day will come. I hope it's the USA leading the way through innovation and competition in an open market place not some bunch of dictitorial bureaucrats forcing us to buy immature technologies.
No. What happened in the 1970s is that the US' oil production peaked and then faded. It took a while for the US to realize that it could print money and use it to buy other countries' oil in great quantities.
Now the world is facing a production peak and the problems are starting all over again. This time there is no other place to bail us out.
Having said that, I will also say that there was a man-made component to what the US suffered in the 1970s. Nixon had placed wage and price controls on many goods, crude oil and natural gas among them. While he lifted said controls on many goods rather quickly, he left them in place on oil and natural gas. The result was that when OPEC raised prices on international oil and put a short term oil embargo on the US for political reasons, Nixon's price controls got in the way of the remaining US crude oil supplies from flowing easily to make up for the short fall.
This time there are no price controls, thankfully, so it's rather unlikely we'll see long lines at gas stations. Instead, we'll see what we've already seen over the past 5 years....very high prices at times, but with gas available for those willing and able to pay.
I could respond to the others here too regarding hydrogen. Hydrogen is not an energy source, but rather an energy carrier. It takes energy to separate hydrogen from other compounds because here on earth, hydrogen does not exist in its pure, combustible, reactive form. Saying we're all going to switch to hydrogen cars is nice, but you still have to generate the electricity to make the hydrogen. Then too hydrogen is very bulky. Even in the newest incarnations of hydrogen storage tanks, it's very hard to store enough on-board hydrogen to power a car for much more than 100 or 150 miles.
And yes, burning food to power cars is crazy, but I have no doubt as oil starts running up again in price, food prices will go right along with it, just as they did 2 or so years ago.
Maineah: I didn't say science has come up with everything in terms of energy. What I am saying is that there isn't anything that's plentiful enough and cheap enough to easily replace the fossil-fuel powered, internal combustion engine that presently powers about 500 million cars and trucks on this planet. Nothing. Even our supposedly great, 100 year supply of natural gas, when used to replace oil on a BTU for BTU basis here in the US, shrinks to a 24 year supply. That's not such a long time.
Super capacitors are nice, fuel cells are nice. But we need something in quantity, NOW. Oil production is peaking right now and is set to drop by 5 or more percent worldwide every year, year over year from here on. As well, our nation is fairly broke and quickly replacing our 300 million cars with alternatives that will cost a minimum of $30,000 just isn't going to happen without a lot of economic pain.
As a former electrical engineer who has studied quite a bit of economics as well, I stand by that statement.
YOU may be able to pay $10 a gallon for gasoline now, but that will absolutely wreck the economics of most families and their struggles and failures may very well sink the same economy that for now, enables you to pay that $10 a gallon. This is to say that, while your life boat may be quite seaworthy, 500 other people, who are drowning in the flood because their lifeboats have holes, could very well pull your boat down too when they all try to climb aboard.
This is about basic geology and economics. I understand your anger at the clowns in Washington, but really, they don't have as much to do with the present messed up energy situation as you might suppose. DC clowns won't be telling you what to drive and how far. As I said earlier, it will be the geology and economics that dictates that to you, pure and simple.
So what do we do?? Make our own wood-fired steam powered cars?? Do we ration fuel so only trucks that carry food can have fuel? Do we stop all air travel? Do we go back to horses and wagons? Do we preemptively wipe out China so they won't use up the oil supply? Suppose they get the idea to wipe us out first?? Is this a look at armageddon? Or do we drive even less than we do now, look for alternatives,learn to preserve food without electricity, and carry on as a civilization?
A few days ago [while on vacation] I watched a reporter interviewing a former Shell Oil CEO. He was saying that the 2008-2009 oil production worldwide had peaked. Oil production will not be increasing so long as moratoriums remain in place. China and India have been expanding their demand for petroleum. Worldwide demand exceeded production in 2008-2009. What has been termed as 'Peak Oil' was reached in 2009. From here on out, supply/demand will require that we will see a continuous string of oil shortages and the price of petroleum will steadily increase. [unless of course there are any political or terrorist actions that may cause the dwindling supply to be interrupted; in which case the result be be 'bad'].
I am in favor of shifting home heating fuels to renewable sources like wood or peat.
And shifting food production practices to organic and sustainable methods.
My Dw wants to get a compressed-air powered automobile.
So what do we do?? Make our own wood-fired steam powered cars?? Do we ration fuel so only trucks that carry food can have fuel? Do we stop all air travel? Do we go back to horses and wagons? Do we preemptively wipe out China so they won't use up the oil supply? Suppose they get the idea to wipe us out first?? Is this a look at armageddon? Or do we drive even less than we do now, look for alternatives,learn to preserve food without electricity, and carry on as a civilization?
Eventually we'll all have to make some lifestyle changes. Like FB said, alternative heating fuels will become more common. Vehicles will become smaller and more efficient -- think Europe or Japan. It would make sense to stop air travel for any trip of less than, say, 500 miles, in favor of other public transportation, like trains or buses. I doubt that will happen though -- instead we'll see de facto rationing by price. The 3,000-mile salad will disappear in favor of more local food production, like those tomatoes produced year-round by the greenhouse in Windsor(?). But IMO all those things are way down the road, well beyond crystal ball range.
Short of some sort of "black swan" event, steam-powered cars and horse-powered pickups are probably so far in the future that no one here will ever see them. I won't be at all surprised, though, if prices within ten years or so rise to the point where the government is pushed to "do something," such as price controls or rationing, to protect low and middle income folks.
Maineah, you ask about wars. It has been argued we're already fighting over oil and other resources in Iraq and Afghanistan. It seems even more likely similar conflicts will occur in the future as supplies tighten.
I've seen analyses that figure in the cost of protecting our overseas petroleum sources and the sea lanes that tankers use to get here. The final number is something on the order of $300 a barrel and up, depending on what you include. Imagine what the impact on our economy would be if we could eliminate those costs and devote even a quarter of that money to underwriting the changes needed to end our addiction to foreign oil??
We have been using a little electric car to get around and driving our other gas cars less lately. I think there are things we can do. If we have hit peak oil I think we are going to have to figure something else out, and soon. According to Deutsche Bank we may be falling off the production plateau in as little as 4 years, and then we really have to start adjusting.
I wish we had the money to buy something like a Volt or the Leaf, but for now our Gem car is working okay. My pickup was smashed into yesterday, so I may have to dig the electric out as my only transportation.
So what do we do?? Make our own wood-fired steam powered cars?? Do we ration fuel so only trucks that carry food can have fuel? Do we stop all air travel? Do we go back to horses and wagons? Do we preemptively wipe out China so they won't use up the oil supply? Suppose they get the idea to wipe us out first?? Is this a look at armageddon? Or do we drive even less than we do now, look for alternatives,learn to preserve food without electricity, and carry on as a civilization?
Lots of choices.
Walk.
Bicycle.
Gas or electric Scooters
Electric cars
Horses (which should mean you can drink and ride, because if you're too drunk to steer, the horse can always get you safely home).
Dog sled.
Skiing
Lots of choices--many of them more fun than cars, too, and healthier for you.
Also, we forget how good some of the old technology was, too. For example, I find it more efficient and convenient to use a hand tool than a power tool when the job is a small one (why dig out the electric drill and bother with an extension cord, if you just have to drill a few holes in wood in your backyard or even inside the house? Silly to do so. And modern cordless power tools are also overkill for small jobs).
Last edited by OutDoorNut; 01-07-2011 at 12:39 PM..
Horses (which should mean you can drink and ride, because if you're too drunk to steer, the horse can always get you safely home).
Dog sled.
Skiing
Lots of choices--many of them more fun than cars, too, and healthier for you.
Also, we forget how good some of the old technology was, too. For example, I find it more efficient and convenient to use a hand tool than a power tool when the job is a small one (why dig out the electric drill and bother with an extension cord, if you just have to drill a few holes in wood in your backyard or even inside the house? Silly to do so. And modern cordless power tools are also overkill for small jobs).
I have been thinking a lot about dog teams lately.
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