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I completely and totally disagree with you on this. Your right to practice your religion, no matter what it is, is NOT being infringed on if gay marriage passes.
The Bible is for you to study, for you to follow NOT to beat over the heads of other people. If the Bible is telling you that gay relations are wrong, then YOU do not partake in gay relations. However, the Bible also states that "thou shalt not judge lest ye be judged"...in other words, follow the Bible, do what it tells you and spend LESS time worrying about what other people are doing and more time ensuring that YOU are right with God.
As was said, it is not your business what people do behind closed doors as long as both parties are adults and consenting. If you believe it is against what the Bible says, then let GOD doll out the punishments, it is NOT for YOU to decide. (Disclaimer, "you" being general, not personal.)
Whoa whoa whoa...back up a minute. I've already stated I don't care what goes on in one's private life. Really, I don't. I've already stated I don't think the government should be marrying heterosexuals either.
You're pinning a lot of stuff on me that I never said here.
What you are FAILING to realize is I can not practice my beliefs within my home because I can not send my kids to a tax payer funded, public school. Teaching morality is not the role of schools, but pushing a homosexual agenda IS treading on moral grounds and in fact violating my parental and religious rights. I want personal freedom and liberty FOR ALL, that includes me and homosexuals.
That is the problem when something becomes "law". As I've already stated it puts limitations on everyone...in this case unconstitutional limitations.
I live it, right now in my current state. This isn't make believe. This isn't hypothetical.
So you can disagree all you like, but it's the living reality right now in CT and it's not right.
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Originally Posted by GatorMama
If two people love each other, if two people can provide a wonderful, loving, safe home for a child in need of a family, who has the right to tell them, "no"?
And who is stopping them right now? Is the gay police going door to door arresting homosexuals? Are they not currently adopting children?
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Originally Posted by GatorMama
, they are perfectly fine with the term, "civil union". So, in some cases, it all boils down to the use of a word.
Really? Then why was there a big push to pass a marriage law after the people of CT said civil unions are fine? Why is there now a big push to further this into the transgender crowd?
No really, ALL they want are equal rights. No really. I swear, just give them legal union status and that will fix it. That was the lie sold to the people of CT. It's pretty obvious now.
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Originally Posted by GatorMama
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. For gays, having gay marriage recognized and legal IS the pursuit of happiness.
Holy crap, you can apply that to anything! Taxation is preventing my pursuit of happiness and infringing on my liberty. Having my children indoctrinated is infringing on all that.
Sorry, weak argument.
Again, let me state it again for the record. I don't care who you marry, I don't care what you do, who you sleep with whatever.
I do care when someone tries to force it as "law of the land". Once it's law, game over.
And again, I'll state for the third time I feel the same way about the governments involvement with heterosexual marriage.
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. For gays, having gay marriage recognized and legal IS the pursuit of happiness.
Good points.
Funny 'tho how this one "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." seems to be missing "Except where it offends my religious and/or moral beliefs, as I am absolutely correct in my faith/beliefs, and you? Well, you're just wrong."
I'm reminded of an Annie Besant saying which seems to be more and more true in today's "I AM the boss of you!" society:
"Refusal to believe until proof is given is a rational position; denial of all outside of our own limited experience is absurd."
Whoa whoa whoa...back up a minute. I've already stated I don't care what goes on in one's private life. Really, I don't. I've already stated I don't think the government should be marrying heterosexuals either.
You're pinning a lot of stuff on me that I never said here.
You missed the disclaimer, then, where I said, "you" was general, not personal.
Quote:
What you are FAILING to realize is I can not practice my beliefs within my home because I can not send my kids to a tax payer funded, public school. Teaching morality is not the role of schools, but pushing a homosexual agenda IS treading on moral grounds and in fact violating my parental and religious rights. I want personal freedom and liberty FOR ALL, that includes me and homosexuals.
There were a lot of things my parents didn't agree with that the school taught us. They took it upon themselves, AT HOME, to teach us what they believed. You still have that right regardless of same sex marriages.
Further, I am ONLY talking about same sex marriages, I am not talking about what public schools try to shove down the throats of kids. They also like to allow PETA in to school to teach them that mommy and daddy are "murderers" for eating meat. When your kids are at home, you raise them how you want them to be raised, you teach them your values and beliefs and if you did a good job of it, they won't be swayed by whatever propaganda or beliefs are being taught to them at school. So, no, your rights to practice your religious beliefs are not being violated.
That's like saying your right to practice your beliefs are being violated because someone in a chat room might tell your kid that there is no God.
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And who is stopping them right now? Is the gay police going door to door arresting homosexuals? Are they not currently adopting children?
I did not say being gay was illegal. I said gay marriage is not legal. There is a big difference. And it has been difficult for gay couples to adopt children simply because they are a) gay and/or b) not married.
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Really? Then why was there a big push to pass a marriage law after the people of CT said civil unions are fine? Why is there now a big push to further this into the transgender crowd?
Because gays do not believe that "civil unions" is granting them their rights. It's like half rights, rights lite.
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No really, ALL they want are equal rights. No really. I swear, just give them legal union status and that will fix it. That was the lie sold to the people of CT. It's pretty obvious now.
See above.
Quote:
Holy crap, you can apply that to anything! Taxation is preventing my pursuit of happiness and infringing on my liberty.
I agree with you on that. There are taxes I'm paying because the money is being used to support something or someones that I am not happy about supporting and I believe it is an infringement on MY rights. Let us give our money to the charities we wish to give it to and stop taxing us to death; having the government TELL us where our money is supposed to go.
However, we are not discussing taxes, we are discussing same sex marriages.
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Having my children indoctrinated is infringing on all that.
Indoctrinated? That's a strong word to be using. Are you seriously telling me that kids today are not allowed to question anything they are taught in schools?
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I do care when someone tries to force it as "law of the land". Once it's law, game over.
And again, I'll state for the third time I feel the same way about the governments involvement with heterosexual marriage.
So we get rid of government involvement altogether then there would be no issue with gays getting married...right?
Whoa whoa whoa...back up a minute. I've already stated I don't care what goes on in one's private life. Really, I don't. I've already stated I don't think the government should be marrying heterosexuals either.
You're pinning a lot of stuff on me that I never said here.
What you are FAILING to realize is I can not practice my beliefs within my home because I can not send my kids to a tax payer funded, public school. Teaching morality is not the role of schools, but pushing a homosexual agenda IS treading on moral grounds and in fact violating my parental and religious rights. I want personal freedom and liberty FOR ALL, that includes me and homosexuals.
Unfortunately, government IS in the business of marriage, though. So as long as it is, and if you don't care how homosexuals live their lives and your libertarian stance says that you believe people should be able to live their lives how they please, then homosexuals should absolutely have the right to get married. Their marriage is not preventing you from living your life the way you please. However, their being unable to get marred IS preventing them from living their lives the way they please.
What are the specific examples of schools violating your religious rights by helping to push this homosexual agenda? 99% of schools do very little in regards to homosexuality. When they do, it's usually just acknowledging that it exists and explaining what it means. They aren't promoting that kind of lifestyle.. no one is keeping others from teaching their own kids what they want about homosexuality based on their religious beliefs. Their religious rights are 100% in tact.
You missed the disclaimer, then, where I said, "you" was general, not personal.
Got it...it was hard to tell where you was and wasn't directed. lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorMama
Indoctrinated? That's a strong word to be using. Are you seriously telling me that kids today are not allowed to question anything they are taught in schools?
5,6,7,8 year olds are not able to reason like that. When an adult is telling them something is normal, they are inclined to believe it. My wife has 20 years in early childhood education, this is not a guess.
Having information given to a child that is at such a core personal level that directly defies what they are being taught at home undermines my parental and religious rights. It should not be taught. Period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorMama
So we get rid of government involvement altogether then there would be no issue with gays getting married...right?
No, that would be anarchy. Limited government kept within it's bounds set by the constitution. We are soooooo beyond that our founders would pass out if they saw what it's become.
I'm going to ask you to watch the videos in the link below and tell me if you think that's okay. Please, watch it and post a reply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenjudkins
What are the specific examples of schools violating your religious rights by helping to push this homosexual agenda? 99% of schools do very little in regards to homosexuality. When they do, it's usually just acknowledging that it exists and explaining what it means. They aren't promoting that kind of lifestyle.. no one is keeping others from teaching their own kids what they want about homosexuality based on their religious beliefs. Their religious rights are 100% in tact.
Uh huh. You don't have this mess in Maine yet, we do in Southern New England. A lot of the same naievete attitude was displayed when the debate was on here too.
That's an opinion piece with little to no factual evidence. Anytime you use a wingnut opinion blog (either right of left wingnut) you lose credibility. This thread has strayed way beyond a Maine topic, it's time to take it over to P&OC.
That's an opinion piece with little to no factual evidence. Anytime you use a wingnut opinion blog (either right of left wingnut) you lose credibility. This thread has strayed way beyond a Maine topic, it's time to take it over to P&OC.
WATCH THE VIDEOS. Those are real videos of real classrooms in Mass and NYC. Nothing fake, nothing opinion.
My God, are you people so blinded by your ideals that you can't see truth for what it is?
That's an opinion piece with little to no factual evidence. Anytime you use a wingnut opinion blog (either right of left wingnut) you lose credibility. This thread has strayed way beyond a Maine topic, it's time to take it over to P&OC.
WATCH THE VIDEOS. Those are real videos of real classrooms in Mass and NYC. Nothing fake, nothing opinion.
My God, are you people so blinded by your ideals that you can't see truth for what it is?
If that's what you want to believe, go for it. Are you so blinded by hate and ignorance you're intolerant of those that don't fit your mold?
As I said, this belongs in P&OC where I'm sure you'll find plenty of like minded individuals.
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