Migrant workers or......

[OutDoorNut]

Originally Posted by bustaduke

BS you don't even have a clue.

In the last 15 years Americans sent there kids to college in order to get better jobs. These same kids are now looking for high paying jobs that are not there because their parents and colleges handed them a lne of crap.

Those same kids need high paying jobs, because they have college loans to pay off.

Originally Posted by bustaduke

Now on to the illegals as yo call them, which the are not. They don't work for lower wages, in fact I pay them over $21 an hour. And they are not illegals as you call them, nor are they Mexicans. GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT before you mouth off.

So, uh, American citizens who get jobs as sanitation workers, who join the armed services and get shot and maimed, become firemen, become policemen, become morticians, or who build bridges, tunnels, and skyscrapers sometimes a thousand feet up, who work in sewers, or who even rake worms on mudflats (is there anything more backbreaking?)--yet those same citizens wouldn't travel around the USA picking tomatoes for $21/hr with no benefits not because the pay isn't enough--but because picking tomatoes is too hard/dirty/dangerous???

[bustaduke]

Originally Posted by OutDoorNut

Those same kids need high paying jobs, because they have college loans to pay off.

Yes they do but these same kids want a job in an air conditioned office all day sitting on a nice soft chair. I do have one kid in college who works for me during the summer and on weekends when in school. His parents are from South America and they expect him to work even though he's in school.

The problem with a lot of people in America is they've lost that mentality that hard work is good for you.

I understand parents wanting their kids to get a better education and not have to work with their hands. My own daughter went to college but I expected her to work and she worked three jobs at that time. Still working two now that's she's finished while still furthering her education in a different field.

Originally Posted by OutDoorNut

So, uh, American citizens who get jobs as sanitation workers, who join the armed services and get shot and maimed, become firemen, become policemen, become morticians, or who build bridges, tunnels, and skyscrapers sometimes a thousand feet up, who work in sewers, or who even rake worms on mudflats (is there anything more backbreaking?)--yet those same citizens wouldn't travel around the USA picking tomatoes for $21/hr with no benefits not because the pay isn't enough--but because picking tomatoes is too hard/dirty/dangerous???

First let me ask you are you willing to pay a lot more for your food? Because if you want pickers paid $21 and hour you sure will.

And $21 an hour won't get you good workers. I'll let you in a on a little secrete. My good workers can make over $75K plus a year.

I'm a superintendent building schools, hospitals, skyscrapers, roads and bridges, chemical plants, casinos, etc. and I pay more then that and still am having a hard time finding qualified workers who know the trades.

This is no BS, I can put on 30 plus people right know. The problem is they need to know commercial foundation work. And not many people know this work nor are they willing to work 8, 10, 12, hours and day here in the deep south with temps in the upper 90's and humidity that will knock the crap out of you.

I have to go through 20 plus applications before I have a chance of finding one person who knows this type of work. And then most won't last a week in this type of environment.

And I don't know about the dangers of picking food. But if bending over all day picking it is anything like my rod-busters and carpenters bending over all day working I can tell you that most of them will not be doing it long because their backs can't take it.

If you even look into the trades you will see that most workers are under 40. By that time they either became a foreman, assistant superintendent, a superintendent, or moved on to a different line of work because most people can't handle this type of work for a long time.

And lets talk about chemical plant work. I have a bunch of them in my area along the Mississippi River. They go to the local school every year and try and recruit employes.

They tell them that all you have to do is go to trade school for six months and they will start you out between $40K and $50K and year. They are having the same problem as we are because these kids parents are telling them to go to college. These are good paying jobs for kids right out of school but they don't want to work in that type of environment.

The company I work for does hire college graduates as project managers that are a joke.

Thirty plus years ago when I got into the business project managers came up through the field, same as superintendents. They learned why a pile cap or grade beam took 10 percent more concrete to fill them. They learned that if something didn't fit you re-built it and made it fit. They learned why the electrician or HAVC guy was behind because something was in the way that was not on the shop drawings, or because the supplier could not fabricate it in time.

They learned that if you have limited space and your pump truck is in it that even though your re-steel delivery and steel erectors crane that is sitting outside the site won't make it in today. They learned that at your weekly meeting with the owners, general contractor and subs was a time to re-group and re-schedule for next week, not ***** about why we missed the schedule.

These kids today that go to college that we hire as project managers look like scared deer when you tell them we're not going to make your schedule.

They pull out their spread sheets and say that we have to because my computer says it should be this way. They don't understand how things work because they have never been in the field before completing college so they have no clue as to where the job is and where it should be.

I laugh when they get all bent out of shape and tell me that their computer spread sheet is different then where we are in the field. I tell them to take the spreed sheep and use it as toilet paper because that's all it's worth. Come back to me with a blank pad and pen and I will show they where we're and where we might be next week.

I try to explain why and when things happen but they just don't have a clue. Such as a simple pile cap excavation today that should have been completed in less then an hour.

I told my foundation subs to start on the elevator pile cap because it was 12' deep and it needed to be completed because it was the lowest cap.

They excavated it and found that one piling in the middle was missing plus part of the existing buildings foundation was in the way and they also found six other existing pilings there from the existing elevator.

Simple fix is to incorporate the existing pilings because they make up for the one missing, drill into the existing footing and set re-steel that matches the new pile cap, problem solved. Nope, not even close.

I have to get the foundation contractor to submit an RFI to me explaining the problem. I then have to submit and forward the RFI to the architect, who has to forward it to the engineers.

The engineers address the RFI and re-draw the cap to incorporate the existing pilings, drill into the existing footing, set re-steel and place the new cap. They send the approved drawing to the architect who reviews it and approves it then send it to my office a week later. My office forwards it the next day and I tell the foundation contractor to proceed with the fix that I said we would do last week and my idiot project manager who doesn't have a day in the field can't understand why we are not on his computer spread sheet schedule.

But what do I know. Keep sending these idiots to college when they should learn the trade in the field where they would know something.

It's like I said after Katrina hit here. The CORP sent all these college engineers into town to try and stop the flood wall breach. The dropped sand bags one at a time and couldn't figure out why it took several weeks to fill the breech and stop the flooding.

None of these college educated idiots ever build a levee or stopped flooding before but they all had computers that told them how to re-build the levee.

Cass Brothers would have stopped the breach in a day at the most. They are earth movers and build levees everywhere. They would have gotten Boh Brothers to sink barges at the breach that were filled with sand and clay and pushed fill in from each side to rebuild the levee. Not try and fill it one sand bag at a time like the CORPS did.

But getting back on track. If you know guys that can handle the heat, humidity and long hours I would be more than willing to give that job to an American. But if they can't handle it I will also send them packing within an hour. I'm 52 years old and if you can't hang with me and produce like I do then you need to fine a different line of work and not even think of applying.

Or you can go to college and hope to get a job at Starbucks.

busta

[Cornerguy1]

Mod Note:

How about you boys take the larger debate on what's wrong with the US over to Politics?

Let's save the Maine forum for discussions which center on Maine.