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Just wanted to remind everyone that there are all kinds of gated roads guarding rivers so that only people staying in private lodges can access the best fishing areas (e.g. the Magalloway rivers). Try fishing in the Eisenhower Pool some time. Compared to these concerns, the papers companies were saints.
To believe that regulations caused the decline of Maine's paper industry is simply uninformed and self-rightous.
Wow! and you base that on? Try this one...at least Great Northern Paper...their mill mostly ran on 40 cycle electricity, not the 60 cycle commercial power we all use. The regulations put in place to save some creature, not sure which one...pick anyone, there were many threatened creatures during the debate...those regulations made it impossible for GNP to re-license their hydropower dams. They made a business decision to sell that resource instead. Without electricity to turn all the machines in the mill they spiraled into bankruptcy. Biomass didn't cut it, oil too expensive, they needed to operate on electricity from hydropower to be economical. GNP was put out of business by overregulation of their hydro developments. If you think anything else, you haven't lived in the Millinocket region very much over the past few decades. I'm pretty sure you can find similar stories concerning all the mills. The one in Westbrook was basically regulated out of existance because it created this foul smell that the beautiful people found offensive.
It's not that everything the mills did was great for the environment, but to say regulations had no part in their demise is clueless.
Location: 3.5 sq mile island ant nest next to Canada
3,036 posts, read 5,892,247 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanoeMaine
Or maybe paper companies stopped investing capital into their old mills; Candaian govt. subsidies provided incentives for paper companies to build across the border. We now see more loaded logging trucks going north to CA on the Golden Road.
But it is easy to put the blame on our Maine Govt. When the value of the land becomes such that the highest value use will be for recreation and preservation then we may see this Maine and national treasure become a park or natl. forest. Though I'm not sure this is a good thing, it will provide direction where there currently is no long range plan. Prior to 1970 restricted access was the norm. It was way more difficult to access some of those hidden fishing ponds and streams. But, NMLM would prefer that we focus on recent events that have tried to preserve some of that land the way it may have been back when paper co. not only owned the mills, but the forests too.
To believe that regulations caused the decline of Maine's paper industry is simply uninformed and self-rightous.
For me, the far more important question is what is to become of the North Maine Woods...next.
This should get good fairly soon.
I do disagree about the regulations and the mills. You can't stop at the State of Maine on regs. Look at the fed: EPA, OSHA (ever google the OSHA cowboy?) Armed EPA agents shut down an ice cream stand on a farm in Mass today (Ice-cream spot hits rocky road - Lowell Sun Online). Armed? Seriously?? I disagree wholeheartedly that regulation had nothing to do with mills shutting down.
I do disagree about the regulations and the mills. You can't stop at the State of Maine on regs. Look at the fed: EPA, OSHA (ever google the OSHA cowboy?) Armed EPA agents shut down an ice cream stand on a farm in Mass today (Ice-cream spot hits rocky road - Lowell Sun Online). Armed? Seriously?? I disagree wholeheartedly that regulation had nothing to do with mills shutting down.
Just to clarify - this wasn't the EPA shutting it down, it was a state (Massachusetts) agency. It doesn't make it any less ridiculous, but the Feds weren't involved.
Location: 3.5 sq mile island ant nest next to Canada
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Originally Posted by DPO1131959
Just to clarify - this wasn't the EPA shutting it down, it was a state (Massachusetts) agency. It doesn't make it any less ridiculous, but the Feds weren't involved.
Oops. Thanks. I read too many articles I guess. They all begin to meld.
When the value of the land becomes such that the highest value use will be for recreation and preservation then we may see this Maine and national treasure become a park or natl. forest. Though I'm not sure this is a good thing, it will provide direction where there currently is no long range plan.
What makes you think the investment companies that now own the land have no long range plans?
Regulation had nothing to do with the paper companies going under in Maine. The two causes were: the length it takes for trees to grow in Maine, the labor union. Most paper companies are going down south for relief from both of these problems.
There isn't a major industry left in the U.S. (unless subsidized by the government), that is unionized and hasn't gone bankrupt, or isn't in the process of going bankrupt. I take that back, UPS might be an exception, although they are subsidized by "competing" with a government entity with no functional bottom-line.
When Domtar wanted to buy the mill in Woodland they told GP they had to get rid of the timberlands first. GP began some 70 years ago as the Georgia Hardwood Lumber Company. They have always been in the woods business. Domtar said they were not going to make the same mistake as Mead. You see, Mead bought the old Oxford Paper Company mill in Rumford. Six months later they realized they had made a really big mistake. They had not done their due diligence. Mead thought they could manage their woodlands the way they did in other states. Then they ran into LURC, the DEP and the Maine Forest Service. They sold the mill and complained bitterly in all the trade magazines.
Domtar reads these publications. GP agreed to sell the 19 townships they owned. Some guys over in Lyme, NH called Typhoon LLC bought the 19 townships. Domtar bought the mill. Typhoon LLC owned the 19 townships for a few weeks and sold it all to Hancock Trust. They are not the fine Maine family company that owns Hancock Lumber. This Hancock trust is the investment and retirement trust for Yale University. They very quickly put nearly all of the 19 townships into a conservation easement which cut the economic heart out of Washington County.
There are many very similar stories for each paper company that sold out. A short list includes Eastern, Scott, Great Northern, Lincoln. Diamond, St. Regis, Champion, International Paper, Mead, SD Warren and Georgia Pacific. I know I missed a couple. A few paper companies like Madison, Chinet and Keyes did not own timber lands.
Just to clarify - this wasn't the EPA shutting it down, it was a state (Massachusetts) agency. It doesn't make it any less ridiculous, but the Feds weren't involved.
It was the "Environmental Police", close enough.
Because he didn't get a 'permit' to make an area in the barn to show an instructional video? Seriously?
My blood boils when sh...er, stuff like this happens. If it were me, there's a fair to middlin' chance they'd have to shoot me.
When Domtar wanted to buy the mill in Woodland they told GP they had to get rid of the timberlands first. ...Then they ran into LURC, the DEP and the Maine Forest Service.
Sorry, but over 40 years ago the paper companies (e.g. IP) were building mills in the south. They were moving there because trees grow faster in the south, and most are right-to-work states. I was saddened to read a few days ago that two more Maine paper mills were having big financial problems. Soon, we will have none in Maine. The economics just aren't there. Kinda like the shoe and wool industry we used to have in Maine. Think about it like clothespins, the last factory making them in the U.S. closed in 2002. It was located in West Paris, Maine.
So, although I don't disagree that Maine is exceptionally unfriendly to business, the paper companies saw the writing on the wall long before the the problems you are citing. At least we are still making some paper in the U.S.
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