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y'know this all sounds like it stems from the disease of the world today...money talks -bull***t walks...We try to market garbage to our kids for a quick buck, name our sports arenas after big companies not great people anymore, Beautiful land is there to make a killing... Is it that we really need a change of politics in this country? I really wish I understood why the values of yesterday went out the window? But then again "yesterday" they used to have doctors advertising cigarettes on t.v......
need a change !! and everything you said is true. well i can't say for sure about the docs advertising cigarettes .. that's AWFUL
I agree, that confuses me too. Can someone tell me what posting is? I hope I don't sound like the idiot of the bunch but I'm not really familiar with the issues of land management in this way. Why is the state buying up land? To preserve it? If so , is that bad and why? I do understand the tax issue that NMLM mentioned but is that the only downside? I agree though that most Mainers have obviously gotten it right with knowing how to carefully steward the land ...it has stayed green and beautiful so far...but apparently that is now changing? Because of outsiders or the government? I'm just trying to get a better grip on the details of the issue. Thanks to anyone who has enough patience to explain it to me....
Posting consists of signage, often some fugly florescent color tacked to a tree about 50 feet apart with a signature. It lets everyone know not to trespass, fish and hunt without landowner's permission. It is often the first thing many from away do before they even design a septic. Up to Beaver Cove, the residents posted the entire settled part of the town from firearms and they are literally out in the middle of nowhere, occupied by mostly flatlanders.
The last log drive took place thirty years ago. In the old days you would have many men working in a cutting operation. Modern technology has allowed an operation of to cut, delimb and stack tree wood far more efficiently. All you need is 3 men to operate a feller-buncher, delimber and a slasher to harvest an acre in record time.
For generations, part of the trade off for hard, dangerous work, and low pay was free access to 2 million acres of recreation. The major landowners were longtime stewards of the land such as S. D. Warren, International Paper, Great Northern, Georgia Pacific, Prentiss Carlisle, and private families.
Warren became Scott Paper, then changed hands to SAPPI, and finally Plumb Creek. Along the line, the landowners started charging a nominal fee to access some of the areas. That's fine.
Plumb Creek, who has a habit of developing some of their holdings out west, decided to propose a project for the Moosehead region. It is to include almost a thousand house lots including waterfront development, and a couple of golf courses. There is lots of hemming and hawing about it, but in the end, many residents do not mind. The price of the lots are expected to average about $200k, not exactly in the price rang of most average Mainers up this way. The plan includes putting over 30k acres into conservation with traditional use.
We have passes a bond once in a while for the state to purchase property for the public use. Private individuals have also donated. The Hiltons gave the entire back side of Mt. Kineo to the state for preservation. The AMC has bought a couple of large parcels including Horseshoe and the state has bought a couple of areas around Baxter. Roxanne Quimby of Burt's Bees fame, has purchased about 80k acres in recent years in order to preserve some of northern Maine.
NMLM guy, you are right. There is a window to buy into the quintessential northern Maine woods lifestyle. Property is drying up in the southern part of the state. Much of the oceanfront is bought up by movers and shakers and many from Hollywood.
There is no 'wilderness' up here in the sense you may think. There is almost no place you have to fly in to anymore. The road network in the North Maine Woods is extensive and you can drive in everywhere you want almost. The era of the Grand Hotels has past. The dining room at the Kineo Hotel would seat 600. Moosehead was lined with them. You would come up for weeks or months and just recreate! Ah, those were the days..........
Funny, I would never dream of posting if I got a good size chunk of land. Guess that means I'd better buy some flourescent orange for hunting season!!!
Great thread, El! Not as much fun as cussin' and swearin', but you provoked some good discussion on possibly THE critical issue in Maine - landuse - which is followed closely by "How small an economy can a state have and still survive?" And I appreciate your concerns about historic buildings - sort of like abortions - they should be destroyed only as a desperate last resort, under conditions suggested by MBM, for example. Every time one of them goes, so does a piece of our collective history and culture.
I completely agree in that sense. When it becomes too expensive to salvage and safety is an issue, then a newly constructed replica would be the perfect solution.
Posting consists of signage, often some fugly florescent color tacked to a tree about 50 feet apart with a signature. It lets everyone know not to trespass, fish and hunt without landowner's permission. It is often the first thing many from away do before they even design a septic. Up to Beaver Cove, the residents posted the entire settled part of the town from firearms and they are literally out in the middle of nowhere, occupied by mostly flatlanders.
The last log drive took place thirty years ago. In the old days you would have many men working in a cutting operation. Modern technology has allowed an operation of to cut, delimb and stack tree wood far more efficiently. All you need is 3 men to operate a feller-buncher, delimber and a slasher to harvest an acre in record time.
For generations, part of the trade off for hard, dangerous work, and low pay was free access to 2 million acres of recreation. The major landowners were longtime stewards of the land such as S. D. Warren, International Paper, Great Northern, Georgia Pacific, Prentiss Carlisle, and private families.
Warren became Scott Paper, then changed hands to SAPPI, and finally Plumb Creek. Along the line, the landowners started charging a nominal fee to access some of the areas. That's fine.
Plumb Creek, who has a habit of developing some of their holdings out west, decided to propose a project for the Moosehead region. It is to include almost a thousand house lots including waterfront development, and a couple of golf courses. There is lots of hemming and hawing about it, but in the end, many residents do not mind. The price of the lots are expected to average about $200k, not exactly in the price rang of most average Mainers up this way. The plan includes putting over 30k acres into conservation with traditional use.
We have passes a bond once in a while for the state to purchase property for the public use. Private individuals have also donated. The Hiltons gave the entire back side of Mt. Kineo to the state for preservation. The AMC has bought a couple of large parcels including Horseshoe and the state has bought a couple of areas around Baxter. Roxanne Quimby of Burt's Bees fame, has purchased about 80k acres in recent years in order to preserve some of northern Maine.
NMLM guy, you are right. There is a window to buy into the quintessential northern Maine woods lifestyle. Property is drying up in the southern part of the state. Much of the oceanfront is bought up by movers and shakers and many from Hollywood.
There is no 'wilderness' up here in the sense you may think. There is almost no place you have to fly in to anymore. The road network in the North Maine Woods is extensive and you can drive in everywhere you want almost. The era of the Grand Hotels has past. The dining room at the Kineo Hotel would seat 600. Moosehead was lined with them. You would come up for weeks or months and just recreate! Ah, those were the days..........
Excllent post, dmyankee. The Wilderness has disappeared. Chunks are being cut off everyday to make someone their own private little paradise.
The Land for Mine's Future budget is almost all spent. LMF needs a new flux of funds to further stem bad development and buy pockets of Maine for all to enjoy.
In my humble opinion, Plum Creek is a disaster in the making.
The following does not necessarily reflect my views but I decided to play devils advocate and see this for what it really is.
I am often impressed with the attention to detail and the amount of character found in these old homes/estates that are still around. To look at most new construction I basically see a utilitarian design built for efficiency. Will people "hover" around 150 years from know admiring our lack of attention to detail and our simplicity? Maybe….
Or maybe they will "drive" around looking at only the homes that were built by the people that can afford to build something with such attention to detail and character in today’s market.
Like the builder before him (Charles W. Elliot), this new owner is doing nothing more than what Mr. Elliot did. That is to take advantage of his status in this world and to have what he/she wants.
I can hardly guess to what the real historical value is for saving a home like that, but I would gather that whatever is built there, it will have just as much character and detail as was the original and who knows………maybe 150 years from know some people will be upset because someone with a lot of money is tearing down yet another historical piece of real estate to build another. The more things change..........the more they stay the same.
someone had a good point,,,many from away ,,come up here,,and wonder why they cant mix, and get along with the locals,,,however, not looking at the first action they took,,was to place a "no hunting" sign on woods that have been hunted for generations,,
the folks in greenville,,most of them are behind the plumb creek development,,,,,its the tree-huggers,,,not even from the area,,that are trying to put a stop to it.,,many not even from maine,,
lets make a distinction as far as "development" most of maines "development" or so called urban sprawl is not industrial,,,,no smoke stacks,,no smog,,its residential,,
maine is 99% trees for gawds sakes,,we have more trees in maine now,,than a hundred years ago,,,,,anyone who is thinking maine is getting overdeveloped ,,take a ride north of bangor,,,,for two hours you dont see a damn thing ,,but trees,, and maybe a road sign now and then,,and yes,,mt katadhin,,on a clear day,,
or drive, 1.5 hrs north of bangor to sherman,,and go up rte eleven,,,,til you hit canada,,,again most of what you see is trees,, and this is the developed area of maine,,look west for 50 miles,,and hardly any people there,,,
The following does not necessarily reflect my views but I decided to play devils advocate and see this for what it really is.
I am often impressed with the attention to detail and the amount of character found in these old homes/estates that are still around. To look at most new construction I basically see a utilitarian design built for efficiency. Will people "hover" around 150 years from know admiring our lack of attention to detail and our simplicity? Maybe….
Or maybe they will "drive" around looking at only the homes that were built by the people that can afford to build something with such attention to detail and character in today’s market.
Like the builder before him (Charles W. Elliot), this new owner is doing nothing more than what Mr. Elliot did. That is to take advantage of his status in this world and to have what he/she wants.
I can hardly guess to what the real historical value is for saving a home like that, but I would gather that whatever is built there, it will have just as much character and detail as was the original and who knows………maybe 150 years from know some people will be upset because someone with a lot of money is tearing down yet another historical piece of real estate to build another. The more things change..........the more they stay the same.
LOL!!!
I have a hundred year old funeral parlor that has housed a dozen businesses over the decades. I swear, it was built with anything they had laying around the mills at that time! Much of it is 24" on center with RR ties incorporated. If I had the bucks, it'd be gone and replaced with a slab and 40+ R walls!
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posting
picture's worth a thousand words.
