Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
As we continue to work toward our dream I look around at listings with many that are either off the grid or far enough from it that it would be prohibitively expensive to connect to it, so I've also spent a lot of time looking at generators and various power generation schemes-that's when I ran across the idea of using a hybrid vehicle as a source of power. For those of you who aren't familiar, there is a company out there that offers a conversion kit to turn a Prius into an emergency generator:
As it turns out, the hybrid synergy drive is the most efficient way to generate power since it is essentially a rolling generator and battery bank. With one of these kits, you can draw power out of the battery, rather than directly from a generator, as with a conventional portable unit. Normally, when you run a generator and connect it to your house, it is producing peak power even though you may not be using all of it, so a lot of fuel is wasted. By buffering power use through the battery, the gas powered generator only produces exactly as much power as needed-cycling itself on and off automatically, resulting in a MASSIVE fuel savings over a conventional unit.
When either the battery level drops too low or the load demand is greater than the battery can supply, the gas engine kicks in to recharge the battery/feed juice directly to the load. The result is a quiet, efficient generator that sips fuel. Right now my daily driver is a 2001 Toyota Corolla with 213K miles. I get a consistent 33 MPG out of it with a 72 mile round trip commute and a mix of highway and city driving, but I think I may be persuaded to look at a used Highlander hybrid when the Corolla finally gives up.
The plan would be to use it as my daily driver and convert it so that I could use it as an emergency generator at my house via a connector cord and transfer switch when needed. Unlike my current Generac rattletrap 4800W jobsite unit, I doubt I (or my neighbors) would notice the Highlander running in my driveway all night. However, what really appeals to me would be the possibility of using it as a portable power source for an off-grid cabin in Maine. This way we could fill it up shortly before getting to the cabin, unloading, and then simply connect the "plug out" unit to the cabin's electrical panel.
A Prius would be a more fuel efficient choice (the Highlander gets slightly less MPG than my Corolla), but it doesn't have the space, the ground clearance, or the AWD needed. The Prius with it's ultra low ground clearance would likely not fare well on unpaved roads. I shot an email to ConVerdant, hoping that they had adapted the kit to a Highlander or two already, or could at least walk me through it. From what I understand all Toyota Synergy Drive systems are essentially the same just with different engine, generator, and battery sizes and power capacities. In any event, for those of you who already own a Prius or something that can be adapted, it might be worth looking into before the next ice storm!
I would not go out of my way to look for an off-grid property. We found 33 acres that was perfect for our purposes and bought it; it is far enough from power lines that it would be uneconomic to have them brought in. This is now our full-time residence, and I can tell you that just having a hybrid car is not going to take care of all the challenges. Your question actually reminds me of a thread I started in the SS&P forum regarding lithium batteries, and the possibilities they would open up for off-gridders.
I stand by the endorsement of lithium batteries, that I made in that thread, but the technology is too young yet, and almost prohibitively expensive. It's day is coming. If you are going to purchase the car anyway, that's fine...but even more expensive. If you just want a Prius or Highlander for whatever reason, just get one and enjoy it. It won't help you much in an off-grid situation.
If you build your cabin far from grid power, I do have a suggestion. Look into a Honda EU 3000is generator. It will run you about $1900 (far cheaper than the car), is quiet, and has an "eco throttle" mode that allows it to scale back wattage for when your draw is very low. I own one, and highly recommend it. Ours is 3 years old and has given us no trouble. Plus, it is lightweight enough that you can bring it back home and use it there, in the event of a power outage. This model is popular with RVers, and is the only one allowed in national parks.
The battery idea is still a good one, even if you have to use sealed lead acid batteries. You can run a genset just to charge up batteries (as we often do, for about 2 hours a day), then turn the genny off and run your cabin on the batteries. It's silent, and does not disturb the birds and the bees!
I would not go out of my way to look for an off-grid property. We found 33 acres that was perfect for our purposes and bought it; it is far enough from power lines that it would be uneconomic to have them brought in. This is now our full-time residence, and I can tell you that just having a hybrid car is not going to take care of all the challenges.
We're looking to build a place for three season use-winter snowmobiling/ice fishing, fall hunting, summer recreation (we'll skip mud season )-whether or not it will ever become a permanent residence for us will depend on a lot of things like where our kids eventually decide to settle, but if it does eventually happen, it won't be for another 30 years or so when we're both retired. In a case such as that, having already bought the property, made improvements, etc...I would simply prepare to make the investment of bringing in grid power when the time came. For the near and even mid-range future, we would be looking for a reliable way to generate our own power for no more than two weeks at a time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah
I stand by the endorsement of lithium batteries, that I made in that thread, but the technology is too young yet, and almost prohibitively expensive. It's day is coming. If you are going to purchase the car anyway, that's fine...but even more expensive. If you just want a Prius or Highlander for whatever reason, just get one and enjoy it. It won't help you much in an off-grid situation.
How come? Because of battery life concerns, etc...? You are correct in that the whole thing would be a loss if after one or two seasons of use the battery pack gave out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah
If you build your cabin far from grid power, I do have a suggestion. Look into a Honda EU 3000is generator. It will run you about $1900 (far cheaper than the car), is quiet, and has an "eco throttle" mode that allows it to scale back wattage for when your draw is very low. I own one, and highly recommend it. Ours is 3 years old and has given us no trouble. Plus, it is lightweight enough that you can bring it back home and use it there, in the event of a power outage. This model is popular with RVers, and is the only one allowed in national parks.
The battery idea is still a good one, even if you have to use sealed lead acid batteries. You can run a genset just to charge up batteries (as we often do, for about 2 hours a day), then turn the genny off and run your cabin on the batteries. It's silent, and does not disturb the birds and the bees!
I'll look into the Honda-what concerns me about a smaller generator (The ConVerdant unit is 5000W/6600W surge) is being able to run a deep well pump. In the summer and at least part of the fall I could run a generator solely to run the well pump and fill a cistern, but that would become problematic if we decide to go up for snowmobiling/ice fishing/plain old solitude in the winter because I have to worry about it freezing. Do you run a deep well pump off of the Honda?
The way it is done is with Solar Cells, lead acid golf cart batteries and inverters. Inverters are so cheap now that you can buy one for each set of solar cells and connect the whole system into a charging system for the batteries.
Been there and done that, but have to say its real drudgery. It sounds like an idyllic thing in back to the woods, but it gets pretty difficult as time goes on. We did it on weekends and holiday in our 50's but by the time we were in our 60's we didn't go out to the cabin much anymore.
The utility thing is a bear all on your own. Expect to spend about $20,000+ for a system that you can live with. You will need a serious back up generator, and it will need to be propane not diesel or gas, since it needs to work no matter what the temperatures are, and it needs to be able to power your whole house, so look at a 6000 watt unit. And it need to start up every time, and not have a fouled carb, or have a clogged fuel line due to gunk or temperatures. You will need a separate building for it, preferably concrete block or the sound will be too much for you to deal with---it will drive you nuts. Amish all have them in concrete buildings to muffle the sound.
The way it is done is with Solar Cells, lead acid golf cart batteries and inverters.
This is true, if the person can afford the solar route. My idea was to suggest starting with a battery bank (and lithiums are a great future option), and charge the bank with the generator. You don't need that powerful of a genny to charge up a battery bank. Central Maine Diesel in Hampden can convert all Hondas, Yamahas, and many others to propane. Ours is still a gas model, but in 2 hours it will charge a bank of 8 AGM's enough to run the house the rest of the day. Solar's useless when it's dark and cloudy (we have solar).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badfish740
For the near and even mid-range future, we would be looking for a reliable way to generate our own power for no more than two weeks at a time....How come? Because of battery life concerns, etc...? I'll look into the Honda-what concerns me about a smaller generator (The ConVerdant unit is 5000W/6600W surge) is being able to run a deep well pump.
The first thing you need to do is to determine your load. Do you even know how many watt/hours you will use daily? Not trying to give you a hard time...just trying to share our experience. Until you know how much power you need, you can't size your system. An off-grid system is a battery system. How you charge the battery bank is your own choice - solar, wind, hydro, generator, etc. Only the generator will work in any condition. And you do not need a 5-6000 watt genset to charge a battery bank. That is wasteful of gas (or deisel or propane) to run a genset that is rated at more than you need.
No, we do not run a deep-well pump at our place. We have both a shallow well and a spring on the property, and a 12v pump suffices for those. A deep-well pump probably runs on 220v power, so you are screwed for that unless you get a genset that supplies 220v. A regular inverter supplies 110v. But since you don't have the land yet, how do you know that you will need a deep well pump? Maybe you won't.
Finally, the reason I think you should not use a car to run this system is what I have just written here. It was never intended for use to power a cabin for 2 weeks at a time. I don't think it would do the car batteries any good, and they are expensive. Most off-gridders ruin their first battery bank. Do you want to do this to a new car?? My best advice to you is to pick up something called a Kill-A-Watt at Home Depot (cheap) and plug in everything you think you'll use at the cabin - fridge (it better be small), lights (they'd better be LEDs), computer, TV, a ceiling fan, and not a whole lot else. It gets complicated.
That's why I stated, "Don't go out of your way to look for an off-grid property".
Off-grid homes are not unusual here in my town. Some are off-grid because running power lines to them would be impractical. Some are off-grid even though power lines are available, but because the grid is so terribly unreliable.
I am only aware of one home in this town that does not have a generator [mine], and we are part way through installing Solar-Power.
My Dw drives a Prius hybrid. She loves it. I enjoy how well it handles and how comfortable it is. I am aware of the kits that allow the Prius to power a home. However we do not want our home electricity to rely on gasoline.
The first thing you need to do is to determine your load. Do you even know how many watt/hours you will use daily? Not trying to give you a hard time...just trying to share our experience. Until you know how much power you need, you can't size your system. An off-grid system is a battery system. How you charge the battery bank is your own choice - solar, wind, hydro, generator, etc. Only the generator will work in any condition. And you do not need a 5-6000 watt genset to charge a battery bank. That is wasteful of gas (or deisel or propane) to run a genset that is rated at more than you need.
No, we do not run a deep-well pump at our place. We have both a shallow well and a spring on the property, and a 12v pump suffices for those. A deep-well pump probably runs on 220v power, so you are screwed for that unless you get a genset that supplies 220v. A regular inverter supplies 110v. But since you don't have the land yet, how do you know that you will need a deep well pump? Maybe you won't.
The well was really the only reason I'd consider a 5-6000W since it's the minimum that would have the surge capacity to run a deep well pump. Most gensets that size are 240 capable-my current one will do 240 @ 30 amps I believe. Wherever we end up, off-grid or not, I would just assume that we'd need a deep well, but I suppose we could get lucky. If we don't, then yes, a smaller generator would be fine. The thing I would then worry about is leaving the batteries and inverters there for long periods of time. The batteries, though heavy, are relatively easy to steal, as are the inverters. I have toyed with the idea of building a whole generator/battery system onto an enclosed trailer so that I could just tow it up there, plug it in, and go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah
My best advice to you is to pick up something called a Kill-A-Watt at Home Depot (cheap) and plug in everything you think you'll use at the cabin - fridge (it better be small), lights (they'd better be LEDs), computer, TV, a ceiling fan, and not a whole lot else. It gets complicated.
Electrical needs would be kept very simple-I've been looking at propane refrigerators to eliminate that problem right off the bat. LEDs get cheaper all the time, so lighting is easy. Computer/TV (LED)/satellite box doesn't draw that much. That just leaves a well pump, should I need one. There are still a handful of companies out there that make gas stoves/ovens that use no electricity (pilot lights and manual controls), and from what I've seen, those portable propane camp showers with battery powered igniters are pretty good.
Living like you are at camp in the summer is fun at first. After awhile its a pain. And then when nobody will visit you because they can't run a hair dryer or have a hot shower, it gets even worse.
Its fun at first living in the 1880's. After a few years, its not. I have too many friends who enjoyed the fun at first, and eventually moved back to civilization.
Living like you are at camp in the summer is fun at first. After awhile its a pain. And then when nobody will visit you because they can't run a hair dryer or have a hot shower, it gets even worse.
Its fun at first living in the 1880's. After a few years, its not. I have too many friends who enjoyed the fun at first, and eventually moved back to civilization.
Is the purpose of living here to have friends visit you?
My Dw works in the city, many of her co-workers own 'camps'. They tell her about their camps, and they try to encourage her to buy a camp.
We are very happy with our isolated 150 acre woodlot.
Living like you are at camp in the summer is fun at first. After awhile its a pain. And then when nobody will visit you because they can't run a hair dryer or have a hot shower, it gets even worse.
Its fun at first living in the 1880's. After a few years, its not. I have too many friends who enjoyed the fun at first, and eventually moved back to civilization.
sly hits some good points here
I use to show some rural properties to many "back to nature" folks and once the word "outhouse" was mentioned, or the 3 seasonal place had an outhouse- the woman/wife lost all interest
it is a lifestyle, not a feel good fad
also , good points about friends and family,, and amenities,
we visited someone years ago- a beautiful log cabin in the woods,
and when we had to use the restroom, something wasn't working, and we were instructed to use a bucket
which I didn't have an issue with - I went "to the car" and used a tree, but the woman I was with got a little uncomfortable...
most of us are spoiled!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
)-whether or not it will ever become a permanent residence for us will depend on a lot of things like where our kids eventually decide to settle, but if it does eventually happen, it won't be for another 30 years or so when we're both retired. In a case such as that, having already bought the property, made improvements, etc...I would simply prepare to make the investment of bringing in grid power when the time came. For the near and even mid-range future, we would be looking for a reliable way to generate our own power for no more than two weeks at a time. 
