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Old 04-05-2007, 02:46 PM
 
525 posts, read 2,211,934 times
Reputation: 485

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Of course they did Rabbit! I am glad the meeting did involve counsel, and I am just thinking about you guys. JP and Goldman Sachs and Invenergy and Airtricity and UPC and all the other little fly-by-night LLCs have not fooled me. It is easy to read between their lines if you have the time to wade through all the propaganda.

The turbines are NOT green for many other reasons:
Building them
Trucking them
Clear cutting the ridges and the access roads
paving/oil and stoning the access roads
The pour of the concrete pads
Erecting the turbines
the sub-stations that must CONSTANTLY run on FOSSIL FUELS to keep the energy production consistant

ALL of the above USE fossil fuels

Now, it has been well documented by many installations, notable in Europe, that NOT ONE power plant (choose your fuel) has been shut down because of the installation of Turbines. That means that we are still spewing all the crap into the air and we will still be dependant on coal and oil and nuclear because Turbines WILL NEVER generate enough to shut them down. Infact, as the energy is not storable, it is on demand, the turbines feed the grid only in optimal conditions. When the wind does not blow-no energy. When the wind blows TOO much-they have to shut them down for safety-no energy. Ice storms-shut them down, electrical storms have shut them down.

I for one am ALL FOR alternatives to our current energy crisis. I think the first step is CONSUPMTION, the second step is population, the third step is alternative fuels for vechicles. What about solar, hydro? Why can't the states and feds give everyone a few solar panels to get them less dependant on the already taxed grid? Why? Because than the BIG BUSINESSES would make a few less millions. The oil and gas magnets would have one less home, one less vacation, and less POWER (pun intended)

I think all the money and energy is being put in to the turbine basket, when there are SO MANY other alternatives that we all should be exploring. Turbines are directly connected to the BIG companies that have all the power in this country-Enron (RIP the largest producer of Turbines-sold to GE when they went under) GE, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, BP/Shell, etc. etc.

The big guys with enough money to force these in through tax credits and shelters have once again overpowered "the people" for their own wealth and power.

Such a sad shame, such a waste, such a strong-arming, no-choice, big F-U to the taxpaying citizens of this country.

Anyhow, stay strong Mars Hill, you were done wrong and you have every right to stand up and do something. The pro-wind folks will call you every name in the book, and continue to spread their propaganda to get your neighbors against you. DON'T give up.
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Old 04-05-2007, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Newbury, MA
8 posts, read 21,178 times
Reputation: 12
Default Honesty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coaster View Post
Nothing like being upfront about your intent. Do you intend to present this "worst effect" as commonplace when you play it for your organization?

Wouldn't it be more honest to videotape normal operations? Or is honesty a goal?
Hi Coaster,

What would be considered NORMAL operations. Nice day with low wind less noise. I want to hear what it'll be like should we have some good windy days since that will tell just what to expect.
Think of buying a home next to a cattle ranch and the buyers show you it during the winter. Come summer it isn't going to be anything near what you saw (smelled) in the winter.
Honesty is the goal and I want the abutters and all concerned to know what the worst case scenerio is. Show them NORMAL and when it isn't normal people will be really ticked, as are the people at Mars Hill.
We had sewer and water put on the island last year and now I am showering in chlorinated water. It's high content know because not everyone is pipe in yet. I'm literally being poisoned and we are finding it hard to fight it. I actually am on the best part of the island where my water was perfect. Due to the way they sold the project I cannot hook up my pump and use the GOOD water on my property. They never stated we'd be drinking and showering in chlorine.
I did have a victory where the contractor was told he could dump excess (like) sand on the beach to control erosion in front of some homes. They dumped tar and gravel in with the sand. I called the EPA and when that didn't work had a Boston Globe reporter do a story. All was cleaned up rather quickly after that.
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Old 04-06-2007, 12:31 PM
 
1,594 posts, read 3,690,692 times
Reputation: 1093
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustSayNo View Post
Also, please remember that ANY leaseholder ( a person whom has one on their land) has likely signed a contract forbidding them to say anything negative about anything Turbine related. So, as you talk to leaseholders and non-leaseholders please keep that in mind. Scripts are written and provided to the leaseholders as to how to answer questions from "tourists". Consequently, as you take the "axe to grind" with a grain of salt, please take the "leaseholders" with that same grain.
You have proof of this language in leaseholder agreements and copies of the "scripts" given to them, I assume? If so, I would very much like to see either or both.
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Old 04-07-2007, 11:04 AM
 
525 posts, read 2,211,934 times
Reputation: 485
Good Morning, sorry for the delay. Coaster, I have listed several links to a few contracts. Unfortunately, since the lease are confidential, they are hard to get ahold of, but a few are out there for review.

http://www.stopillwind.org/downloads...d_Contract.pdf
http://www.stopillwind.org/downloads...au_NewYork.pdf
http://kirbymtn.blogspot.com/2005/09...umbs-from.html

This video, along with "The Voice of Tug Hill" also may provide you some information-both can be found on You Tube:
"Life Under a Wind Plant"

The key is confidentiality and the LESSORS obligation to not interfere with any aspect of or related to the development on the land. According to Attorneys that are familiar with this development, we have been told that these two areas effectively mean that negative talk about the project is classified as a breech under the confidentiality and interference clauses.

Enjoy!
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Old 04-26-2007, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Mars Hill, ME
24 posts, read 63,650 times
Reputation: 27
Has anyone heard what the DEP has decided about the noise levels.....or are we still waiting on the reams of paperwork that has to happen before they do their measurements? With these last few sunny days, I can see the strobing effect you have spoken of.....not being outside much in the winter I hadn't noticed before....I can hear them, but here it just sounds like it's really windy even when it isn't.
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Old 04-26-2007, 12:53 PM
 
1,594 posts, read 3,690,692 times
Reputation: 1093
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustSayNo View Post
Good Morning, sorry for the delay. Coaster, I have listed several links to a few contracts. Unfortunately, since the lease are confidential, they are hard to get ahold of, but a few are out there for review.

http://www.stopillwind.org/downloads...d_Contract.pdf
http://www.stopillwind.org/downloads...au_NewYork.pdf
http://kirbymtn.blogspot.com/2005/09...umbs-from.html

This video, along with "The Voice of Tug Hill" also may provide you some information-both can be found on You Tube:
"Life Under a Wind Plant"

The key is confidentiality and the LESSORS obligation to not interfere with any aspect of or related to the development on the land. According to Attorneys that are familiar with this development, we have been told that these two areas effectively mean that negative talk about the project is classified as a breech under the confidentiality and interference clauses.

Enjoy!
The lease agreement looks pretty standard, and I don't see anything in there that takes away the landowner's right of free speech. I suggest you check with some different attorneys. Also, I noticed that the example was from New York and was for a different company. Are you arguing that the same lease agreement is used in Maine?

Yes, I know I'm being difficult, but some pretty serious accusations have been made here. Before I go up there to look around myself, I want information that won't make me look stupid if I bring it up with the local folks.

BTW, wouldn't the DEP have been involved in the permits for the Mars Hill project? Why didn't information about noise come out in the public hearings?
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Old 04-26-2007, 04:53 PM
 
19,276 posts, read 25,708,795 times
Reputation: 37326
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbitlover View Post
JustSayNo, I wish I could say more about the meeting but now that there is legal counsel involved, I can't. JP Morgan and Wells Fargo is involved in this project now and big corporations will indiscriminately screw people over to make a buck.

As for these "environmental" turbines, they need to be lubed and greased, which means they use petroleum products...so much for "green".


Coaster, the sound equipment should be in the people's homes who are experiencing noise and vibration in their homes. These people aren't wackos, they are respectable members of the community who can't get a decent nights sleep.

UPC stated these wind mills would be virtually without sound, we would hear the WIND more than the turbines. The company lied.
hiya rabbit ,,i just came back from a few days in the county, i saw those windmills, again,,,when i first saw them,,i thought they were in canada (being across the st. john river...
also thought the "mountain" or big hill they are on,,was in canada,but they are in mars hill??
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Old 04-27-2007, 01:12 PM
 
525 posts, read 2,211,934 times
Reputation: 485
Coaster, I am not going to argue with you. I again state that the leases are under wraps, they are confidential. Unless I was a leaseholder I would not have one to show you. Some were leaked, and on the net. NY is way ahead of Maine on this, just like Europe is way ahead of the US. NY has felt and still will feel the effects of this industrial development in non-industrial areas. If you read my first post, you would know that I am in NY, just battled and won turbine development in my town of less than 800 and I am well researched on the goings and comings of this. My contribution was to help Mars Hill in the form of empathy, sympathy, and understanding on how the residents got shafted by UPC and their local government. The residents were NOT told about this ahead of time, their opinions and vote were NOT asked for. They were given no information (except the propaganda) and were given no say in the matter. Whether you are for of againt this technolgy and big-bucks boondoogle is up to you. But, can you agree with the methods these companies are using to get their way and make their money? I sure do hope not. And our attorneys are more than qualified as this is their business, perhaps your attorney, or whomever read and judged the documents for you, should read them again, and read between the lines as that is where the "don't make trouble" resides in the lease.
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Old 04-29-2007, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Northern ME.
117 posts, read 406,983 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by mainebrokerman View Post
hiya rabbit ,,i just came back from a few days in the county, i saw those windmills, again,,,when i first saw them,,i thought they were in canada (being across the st. john river...
also thought the "mountain" or big hill they are on,,was in canada,but they are in mars hill??

Hey Mainebrokerman, they are right on Mars Hill mountain, you know where the ski area is, right, Big Rock?.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:37 AM
 
19,276 posts, read 25,708,795 times
Reputation: 37326
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbitlover View Post

Hey Mainebrokerman, they are right on Mars Hill mountain, you know where the ski area is, right, Big Rock?.

thanx rabbit, for some reason i thought the mountain was in canada...
thanx for the correction!
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