biometric scanning (fingerprints, credit card, high school)

[mommax3plus2]

i just got a letter in the mail today from our high school (private). they are going to use biometric scanning (fingerprint identification) as part of their automated food service program. her logorythmic grid (developed from her fingerprints) will be used instead of a debit/credit card or cash (thereby providing a safer environment for the children), nor do they have to remember a pin number. i will place money in an account with the school (cash, credit or debit) and i can access my child's spending history at anytime.

this caught me by surprise, i had no idea they were planning anything like this. it sounds good, but i havent had time to think about it yet. i have 7 days to tell them if i dont want it done. thats the part that makes me nervous- i tend to be wary of short time periods to make decisions.

any thoughts?

[Elcarim]

Nosey government intrusion at its finest!

[genmomto5]

My geek side says, cool. We had a door knob with a biometric lock and it made me not worry about kids forgetting keys and such.

But I understand hesitating.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by mommax3plus2

i just got a letter in the mail today from our high school (private). they are going to use biometric scanning (fingerprint identification) as part of their automated food service program. her logorythmic grid (developed from her fingerprints) will be used instead of a debit/credit card or cash (thereby providing a safer environment for the children), nor do they have to remember a pin number. i will place money in an account with the school (cash, credit or debit) and i can access my child's spending history at anytime.

this caught me by surprise, i had no idea they were planning anything like this. it sounds good, but i havent had time to think about it yet. i have 7 days to tell them if i dont want it done. thats the part that makes me nervous- i tend to be wary of short time periods to make decisions.

any thoughts?

It is being 'marketed' to you.

Management sees it as a cost-cutting measure.

A couple $50 thumbpads and computer networking can handle work load that had been done by salaried employees.

Biometrics can be used to control doors, which gives the feeling of greater security while cutting costs of having a salaried person controlling the door.

The fingerprints will eventually go into a larger database. But there is no way to stop that from happening at this point.

When dealing with children the whole PIN issue, handling cash issue, can be huge issues. Requiring even greater employee support to keep the ball rolling smoothly day-to-day. Whereas by automating using biometrics, you place less responsibility on the children.

Go for it

[mollysmiles]

I'm not sure that anyone needs my child's fingerprints.... I have to think about this one. When they were little and the Maine State Police did it's fingerprinting program for families, even they didn't take a copy to keep on file. They're turned over to the families....

I'll be 43 in two weeks.... I carried my lunch money to school, my kids (4) carry/have carried their lunch money to school... there's never been a problem. We're the same society that complains that our children too easily shirk their responsibilities yet we continue to put things in place so that they have none. Hmm... I'm not really sure on this one either momma.

[broadbill]

Originally Posted by mommax3plus2

i just got a letter in the mail today from our high school (private). they are going to use biometric scanning (fingerprint identification) as part of their automated food service program. her logorythmic grid (developed from her fingerprints) will be used instead of a debit/credit card or cash (thereby providing a safer environment for the children), nor do they have to remember a pin number. i will place money in an account with the school (cash, credit or debit) and i can access my child's spending history at anytime.

this caught me by surprise, i had no idea they were planning anything like this. it sounds good, but i havent had time to think about it yet. i have 7 days to tell them if i dont want it done. thats the part that makes me nervous- i tend to be wary of short time periods to make decisions.

any thoughts?

What kind of documentation did the school give you? There should have been some sort of privacy notice which describes how the fingerprint will be used, what information is connected to that fingerprint, and who has access to that information.

If you didn't get that info, that is what would raise a flag for me.

[mommax3plus2]

thanks for the input everyone

the letter i recieved today is 2 pages, explaining the program.
they will scan the left and right index fingers. "the system will then develop a grid, intersecting points of the fingers and converting those points to mathematical logarithms. the actual image of the finger is then discarded and only the grid remains in the system. this is how the students and staff are recognized by the system and their accounts tallied electrocially."

that was the extent of the privacy statement. the rest of the letter is mostly how it will be used for the lunch program.
i am always the one who wants to try to think thru the unintended consequences before they happen, as thats usually what ends up biting us in the a$$.

[mollysmiles]

It seems that if you can develop a grid from the fingerprint, you can reverse the procedure and develop a fingerprint from a grid. The points all have to connect, and the manner in which they would seems rather limited. Usually what can be done mathematically can be undone mathematically.... at least in my brain that's what I remember from the math I had!

I guess part of me is also wondering if the school is doing this to be on the "cutting edge" of technology, a supposed better image type of thing, or is there a real, tangible savings to putting this in place. I wonder what happens if the system is down? How will the students get fed and how long before the service guy can make it there to repair it? Those might be good questions to ask.

[mommax3plus2]

my understanding is that they will still be able to use cash. it will be used mostly, from what i can discern, as a tool for inventory, ordering and reporting in the food service program and also for more anonymity for free and reduced meal students, and possibly tracking what they eat???

[broadbill]

Originally Posted by mollysmiles

It seems that if you can develop a grid from the fingerprint, you can reverse the procedure and develop a fingerprint from a grid. The points all have to connect, and the manner in which they would seems rather limited. Usually what can be done mathematically can be undone mathematically.... at least in my brain that's what I remember from the math I had!

I guess part of me is also wondering if the school is doing this to be on the "cutting edge" of technology, a supposed better image type of thing, or is there a real, tangible savings to putting this in place. I wonder what happens if the system is down? How will the students get fed and how long before the service guy can make it there to repair it? Those might be good questions to ask.

I guess it depends on how many points they collect if they can reconstitute a fingerprint from the grid. Your "connect-the-dots" idea has merit if you assume straight lines between points in the grid, but if the lines are curved then the ability to get a fingerprint back from the grid becomes MUCH more complicated, if not impossible.

I also feel that this is more about implementing technology than practical savings. Maybe not though....that technology is pretty cheap these days.

I would consider the information that Momma pretty inadequate and would take the school to task to ask the outside contractor to provide the privacy information.