Why is Maine a poor state? (Portland, Bangor: buying, construction, casinos)

[drvjmj]

Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow

I don't understand this argument about the cost of living. I completely disagree that the cost of living is high here.

A few examples are that I can buy the exact same stuff at the grocery store here that I did in other cities I lived in and the prices are much lower. Consider that I am comparing these prices to what I paid in a city on the west coast almost 10 years ago, that says something.

My excise tax, registration, et al are not more expensive. Again, the west coast has Maine beat by a mile and apparently now FL is making things difficult and more expensive in that area.

My car insurance literally dropped OVER $1200 A YEAR, just by moving to Maine. I just paid off my insurance for a year that would have covered only three months in other places I've lived.

Electric is actually cheaper, again comparable to what I was paying on the west coast 10 years ago. Gas is cheaper, (believe it or not), than some other places I've lived when you do a comparison.

Getting work done on my car is cheaper.

I can find a farm and get my pets' food way, way, way cheaper than anywhere I've ever been.

It is totally and completely possible for me to be able to "make it" with HALF (or more), of what I used to have to make just to keep my head above water.

Life isn't just about taxes. When people talk about the, "cost of living", are they not talking about actual living? Are they not talking about the day to day stuff, the "living" part of "the cost of living"?

The only argument anyone has here is oil. Considering how much I save on every other aspect of my life here, even with oil, cost of living is lower.

Wages? One could say, "But the wages in Maine are bad!" I would say to that, "Honey, the wages are bad all over. This is an employers' market and they know it."

But let's get back to taxes...when I first started investigating living in Maine, I did a comparison of taxes between Maine and some other places I've been before. The taxes are lower here. A LOT lower here. I'm really confused where people come up with this idea that it's horribly expensive to live in Maine.

I just spent a few days in Maine and spoke to a woman who was going to sell her business because the taxes were too high on her 4 acres. She was paying $4000. I have a house on a 75 x 125 foot lot and pay $9000 in taxes in New Jersey. She thought maybe she was wrong about the high taxes in Maine.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by drvjmj

I just spent a few days in Maine and spoke to a woman who was going to sell her business because the taxes were too high on her 4 acres. She was paying $4000. I have a house on a 75 x 125 foot lot and pay $9000 in taxes in New Jersey. She thought maybe she was wrong about the high taxes in Maine.

How much is your land valued at, and how much is hers valued at. That is the real question, well that and how much income each of you have.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by drvjmj

I just spent a few days in Maine and spoke to a woman who was going to sell her business because the taxes were too high on her 4 acres. She was paying $4000. I have a house on a 75 x 125 foot lot and pay $9000 in taxes in New Jersey. She thought maybe she was wrong about the high taxes in Maine.

2400 sq ft 3bdrm home on 42 acres with 1/4 mile of river frontage, taxes are $615

There are more factors at play.

[Maineac]

Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man

"Who is this Evan Richert anyway?"

Glad you asked. He is a far left radical environmentalist who championed the COMPACT under Angus King. Many will remember the COMPACT. I'm not shouting. organizations with initials like NATO stand for something. The COMPACT stood for Citizens Owning Maine Property Are Considered Trespassing. It was thy keystone of their rural cleansing movement. He is still a key figure in the environmental industry in Maine.

I went back and read all this. It's about planning for population growth and avoiding demolishing rural areas to the benefit of developers and preserving agriculture and timberlands. It's the same exact concept that came automatically when America was settled. Industry surrounded by the housing for employees (kinda like Bucksport, Millinocket, etc.) and the outlying agricultural areas. Once again, you cry fire in a crowded room, and attempt to re-interpret reality to suit an obvious political bent. Absolutely nothing to do with "preventing" anyone from owning rural land, or the oft-cited "boogeyman" of the myth of "rural cleansing." Guess what? Tomorrow is the open of bear season, and its my understanding that Roxanne, one of your favorite targets for misinformation, or rather her son, has plans for opening up parts of Elliotsville to hunting. They're laying out ATV trails right now. Don't that just get yer goat? That you're losing that "example" of "rural cleansing." Come to find out, there's bear guides up thereabouts that fully support the National Park concept. Me? I don't know. It's too soon to figure. But you've still got the E/W highway - oh, wait, that provides massive corporate profits, so taking and closing that 15,000 plus acres and splitting Maine in half is O.K. THAT'S not "rural cleansing" by your definition, is it? If it's their land, they should be able to do what they want with it - oh, wait, can't have Yale University putting land in trust "so nobody can build a camp on it" though, can we? I love watching the rationale swing based on who owns the property. It seems to change dramatically.

[slyfox2]

How is poor measured?

[RMoore007]

Originally Posted by slyfox2

How is poor measured?

Measured by the size of your wallet. I think Maine is only the 33rd poorest state according to Wikipedia.

US Dept of Health and Human Services figures for poverty 2013:

Persons in family unit 48 Contiguous States and D.C....Alaska and Hawaii not included.

1 $11,490
2 $15,510
3 $19,530
4 $23,550
5 $27,570
6 $31,590
7 $35,610
8 $39,630

Each additional person adds $4,020

Poverty in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe the question should be, "Why is Maine better with poverty than almost 20 other states?"

[cebdark]

Originally Posted by RMoore007

Measured by the size of your wallet. I think Maine is only the 33rd poorest state according to Wikipedia.

US Dept of Health and Human Services figures for poverty 2013:

Persons in family unit 48 Contiguous States and D.C....Alaska and Hawaii not included.

1 $11,490
2 $15,510
3 $19,530
4 $23,550
5 $27,570
6 $31,590
7 $35,610
8 $39,630

Each additional person adds $4,020

Poverty in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe the question should be, "Why is Maine better with poverty than almost 20 other states?"

Maybe it's because experience (and freezing weather) has taught us how to save money for the heating season, so we're better at budgeting during the rest of the year?

Just a hypothesis.

[JoulesMSU]

Originally Posted by tcrackly

I still think Maine could court more prosperity if we had more access through infrastructure. Just a modest
East-West highway and a few deep water ports would facilitate more goods and services coming to Maine and more Maine-made products going out. Conservatively scheduling industrialization or more liberal natural preservation statutes could give us a little leg up in the vast continental market while still preserving what makes Maine special.

One of the big things that I have noticed (having just moved here recently) is the lack of connection with Quebec. It's not very easy to get to Quebec City or Montreal. These two major cities that could facilitate a lot of trade (or at the vest least, tourists) are only accessible via highway if you drive through Vermont!

This is completely ridiculous when you consider that Quebec City has over 500,000 people, nearly half of Maine's population, and Montreal has MORE people than Maine does. That is a lot of people who live nearby but don't have easy access to this state, and most likely spend their time (and money) in Vermont or upstate New York instead.

A highway from Montreal to Augusta and another from Quebec City to Newport would be a huge boon. Heck, add another one from Saint John, New Brunswick to Bangor as well and it would really make the state more accessible to its neighbors.



I'm from Michigan, where we also border Canada, although not much. There's a huge body of water between us and Ontario for the most part. However, where you can cross on land, we made sure to make it possible - you can go across from either downtown Detroit or the Flint/Port Huron area. Additionally, there is a highway that goes straight up to Sault Ste. Marie in the Upper Peninsula, which is another border city. These are literally the only points to cross from, but they are all covered via highways to make it easy to get to.

So it's very odd that Maine is surrounded by Canada, and yet only has 1 major entry point on land (in Houlton). Quebec is a huge providence with lots of people and resources... and it's like you are trying to ignore that they are there!

[Richard102938]

Originally Posted by Maineac

I went back and read all this. It's about planning for population growth and avoiding demolishing rural areas to the benefit of developers and preserving agriculture and timberlands.

Most of these "pristine" rural areas have been clear cut and developed before, We need much MORE development just to maintain what little development we have left from falling into disrepair and being taking over by the states growing forest land. That is not even touching the issue of reclaiming development that has been lost. If we massively increase development in these area's to restore it to level it was in the 1890's than we can look into adding restrictions if needed.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by Richard102938

Most of these "pristine" rural areas have been clear cut and developed before, We need much MORE development just to maintain what little development we have left from falling into disrepair and being taking over by the states growing forest land. That is not even touching the issue of reclaiming development that has been lost. If we massively increase development in these area's to restore it to level it was in the 1890's than we can look into adding restrictions if needed.

Some would argue that the only road to 'progress' it so first borrow money [at interest] so we can double taxes, and then pave over all of that nasty forest, bring high-rise condos, shopping malls, casinos and meth-labs in, pack them as tight as possible. Yeah that should fix Maine's problems.

Gotta deal with that growing forest land somehow, Agent Orange might help.