maine north woods (Dexter, Eastport, Patten: real estate, gated, taxes)

[Maine Writer]

grimstuff, what's your personal experience with the area?

[grimstuff]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Well I can talk about tourism based economies. Vermont is one. The result? Minimum wage jobs working retail with a college degree are considered "good." The rural cleansing movement here has had its desired effect: places like the Northeast Kingdom I'm from are de-populating because there's no economy.

I agree with you. Tourism seems to create more jobs, but poorer quality ones that don't provide a living wage.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by grimstuff

I agree with you. Tourism seems to create more jobs, but poorer quality ones that don't provide a living wage.

And they evaporate everytime the economy nationally gets bad...

[grimstuff]

Originally Posted by Maine Writer

grimstuff, what's your personal experience with the area?

Close to none. I'm simply joining in on the discussion to learn what I can and share my viewpoint on universal topics like zoning, the environment, industry, jobs, etc. Would you rather I leave? Do you see my participation as some sort of threat?

[grimstuff]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

And they evaporate everytime the economy nationally gets bad...

And foreign exports often increase when our economy is bad, due to a weaker dollar... would seem to support the promotion of real industries (like forestry) rather than tourism.

On a related note... I come from the coastal area of Northern California, where many of these same issues have already played out in the past few decades. An area rich with natural resources, a once thriving timber industry, now a region littered with dead mill towns, and I mean hundreds and hundreds of mill towns all over the mountainside, each with their own unique histories. However, the death of that industriy didn't come about just because people started getting sentimental about redwoods, but because there were other legitimate uses of the land that needed to be taken into consideration. Also, the logging industry boomed during times when there were no rules outlining sustainable yield... when those rules were put into place, things declined. Reminds me of the housing industry: just because housing was booming a couple years ago doesn't mean that's the way it should always be.

Nowadays there is not much hope for young kids growing up in that area where I'm from. Like a lot of other places where manufacturing is no longer present, there are no well-paying, living-wage jobs. Tourism and local government provide most of the jobs (not counting the marijuana industry). Does this mean there needs to be more logging? Not necessarily, no, because a booming logging industry was based on the non-sustainable use of that resource. If there are fewer jobs with a more sustainable use of the resource, that's the way it should have been all along.

I think things will be better up where I'm from as people look to localization of industries... but I don't know how much hope there is for that kind of thing with all the Walmarts of the world keeping people dependent on cheap Chinese imports. Thankfully, there is at least the wine and micro-brewery industries. What people need is hope of economic viability of their livelihood, and that isn't going to happen unless we can at least partially rely on what we ourselves can produce. Unfortunately, a hundred and fifty years of industrialization has decreased self-sufficiency.

[RetiringInMaine]

All I'm hearing is complaining of the type that Grimstuff described.

I am hearing no solutions other than wanting things to go back to the way they were. But they won't; they never do. As long as the population keeps growing, as long as the baby boomers start retiring and moving, as long as the environment Green movement continues to gain momentum, none of what you are railing against is going to stop. You are just P***ing against the wind, and probably getting wet in the process.

Stop trying to bring back a past which is not returning and look forward to how you can make the future work for you. Otherwise you will be left in the dust. It is the way it is. I don't have to agree with it to see the handwriting on the wall. Just because North Woods Mainers believe that its a free range where they can use land that doesn't belong to them like it was when the country was young and nobody owned it, doesn't mean that's the way of the future. Its not the way of the future. People own things and people don't want other people using what they own as a dumping ground.

And yes I do understand that. I used to own more than 40 acres in a very rural area. I allowed people to hunt on my land because they did it for decades, and because since I wasn't there all the time I didn't want my cabin vandalized. But I refused to tolerate it when they decided to start running their 4-wheelers all over it at all hours of the day and night, cutting paths thru the land. I dropped trees across their 4-wheeler paths, and they would bring their chain saws in and re open them, and I'd drop more trees. I let them hunt during deer season, but not just any old time they chose. I'd wonder through the property when they were hunting on MY LAND in a non season, and shoot my 357mag randomly, 3 -6 shots at a time. People don't like to hunt when they know somebody with a big handgun is also wondering around. The land that I owned and paid taxes for was not available for their private recreation unless they wanted to own it and pay the taxes. And then there was the danger: if they got hurt on my land and I hadn't stopped them I could have been sued by them for damages. Not right! But the way it is.

You cannot stop the course of a river, but you can change its course if you give it an alternative. If you want to have more control of the land that you know is going to be taken then do that. But you are unlikely to stop the juggernaut cold. And if you do, you'll be wet from your own *ee.

RIM

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by RetiringInMaine

All I'm hearing is complaining of the type that Grimstuff described.

I am hearing no solutions other than wanting things to go back to the way they were. But they won't; they never do. As long as the population keeps growing, as long as the baby boomers start retiring and moving, as long as the environment Green movement continues to gain momentum, none of what you are railing against is going to stop. You are just P***ing against the wind, and probably getting wet in the process.

I get the feeling you're a supporter of this movement?

You can bet everything people are not going to accept their destruction at the hands of these elitists.

The extreme environmentalists are rapidly discrediting themselves. Rural residents already know very well what they're up to.

And yes I do understand that. I used to own more than 40 acres in a very rural area. I allowed people to hunt on my land because they did it for decades, and because since I wasn't there all the time I didn't want my cabin vandalized. But I refused to tolerate it when they decided to start running their 4-wheelers all over it at all hours of the day and night, cutting paths thru the land. I dropped trees across their 4-wheeler paths, and they would bring their chain saws in and re open them, and I'd drop more trees. I let them hunt during deer season, but not just any old time they chose. I'd wonder through the property when they were hunting on MY LAND in a non season, and shoot my 357mag randomly, 3 -6 shots at a time. People don't like to hunt when they know somebody with a big handgun is also wondering around. The land that I owned and paid taxes for was not available for their private recreation unless they wanted to own it and pay the taxes. And then there was the danger: if they got hurt on my land and I hadn't stopped them I could have been sued by them for damages. Not right! But the way it is.

You can't get sued in Maine if someone is hurt unless, I believe, you charged for the use.

Quimby and these others are buying land they know already contain developed trails, roads, etc. Perhaps an attempt at adverse posession should be done against the enviros. They have nothing wrong with using the government to steal people's homes.

You cannot stop the course of a river, but you can change its course if you give it an alternative. If you want to have more control of the land that you know is going to be taken then do that. But you are unlikely to stop the juggernaut cold. And if you do, you'll be wet from your own *ee.

RIM

These groups are open to no compromise. They will stop only when they have everything they want.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by grimstuff

And foreign exports often increase when our economy is bad, due to a weaker dollar... would seem to support the promotion of real industries (like forestry) rather than tourism.

On a related note... I come from the coastal area of Northern California, where many of these same issues have already played out in the past few decades. An area rich with natural resources, a once thriving timber industry, now a region littered with dead mill towns, and I mean hundreds and hundreds of mill towns all over the mountainside, each with their own unique histories. However, the death of that industriy didn't come about just because people started getting sentimental about redwoods, but because there were other legitimate uses of the land that needed to be taken into consideration. Also, the logging industry boomed during times when there were no rules outlining sustainable yield... when those rules were put into place, things declined. Reminds me of the housing industry: just because housing was booming a couple years ago doesn't mean that's the way it should always be.

Nowadays there is not much hope for young kids growing up in that area where I'm from. Like a lot of other places where manufacturing is no longer present, there are no well-paying, living-wage jobs. Tourism and local government provide most of the jobs (not counting the marijuana industry). Does this mean there needs to be more logging? Not necessarily, no, because a booming logging industry was based on the non-sustainable use of that resource. If there are fewer jobs with a more sustainable use of the resource, that's the way it should have been all along.

I think things will be better up where I'm from as people look to localization of industries... but I don't know how much hope there is for that kind of thing with all the Walmarts of the world keeping people dependent on cheap Chinese imports. Thankfully, there is at least the wine and micro-brewery industries. What people need is hope of economic viability of their livelihood, and that isn't going to happen unless we can at least partially rely on what we ourselves can produce. Unfortunately, a hundred and fifty years of industrialization has decreased self-sufficiency.

Logging can be quite sustainable. Even without such good practices, forests re-take any clearcuts rapidly. Leave a cleared piece of land alone for 10 years and it'll be a forest in New England. The fields of farms I knew in Vermont growing up that went under are now forests, you can't tell there were farms there until you find the old stone walls, rotting fence posts, etc.

[Maine Writer]

Originally Posted by grimstuff

Close to none. I'm simply joining in on the discussion to learn what I can and share my viewpoint on universal topics like zoning, the environment, industry, jobs, etc. Would you rather I leave? Do you see my participation as some sort of threat?

There isn't a forum member here who's a threat.

[maineguy8888]

Just because someone is annoying doesn't mean they're considered a threat. To assume otherwise is pretty narcissistic.
What amazes me is that people are evidently supposed to be happy about rich people from away coming to Maine, buying "kingdom lots", and then telling people they can no longer do things they used to, for recreation or income. I certainly can see why you might say there's no good solution, but to expect people to be HAPPY about this kind of thing happening?? That's just nuts, imho.

Incidentally, one of the things that makes people---including myself---have such a strong, visceral reaction to Quimby is that she is from here. It's almost like she's a traitor. She is doing the same kind of thing that we are used to having done by people from New York, Mass., New Jersey, etc. Except that she's from Piscataquis County! (I believe).