Maryland a southern state (Baltimore, Frederick: maps, resort, winter)

[GoPhils]

But at least others agree that MD does not have a similar climate to SC, much less identical as andrew claims.

It's really not that similar to NC's either. It's much more similar to PA/NJ than it is to NC (obviously those states are closer to MD but I wasn't the one arguing that as a reason that MD should be considered southern when he clearly doesn't think any part of PA or NJ should be southern).

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by GoPhils

Normally I don't really care but he's already spelled it as "Deleware" at least ten times in this thread. Like I said previously, it's tough to have any credibility when saying things like "MD has an identical climate to NC and SC" when you can't even spell the name of the state right next door.

Lost the debate? For one, I was never even really on a particular side. I've been in the Maryland is Mid-Atlantic, some parts are Southern crowd, and I thought you were too? So you think all of Maryland should be considered southern as andrew does?

I don't think you have lost the debate over Maryland's regional identity.

[westsideboy]

But for the record, large parts of Maryland are considered climatically similiar to the Carolinas in terms of USDA Climate Zones

http://mgonline.com/media/Images/z/zm_mdde.jpg
http://mgonline.com/media/Images/z/zm_nc.jpg
http://mgonline.com/media/Images/z/zm_sc.jpg

[GoPhils]

What do those numbers mean?

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by GoPhils

What do those numbers mean?

Sorry,

Official USDA Zone Maps

This explains it better. Most plant species' ranges are determined by the lowest minimum and highest maximum temperature they can survive. Maryland is pretty much the farthest south most "northern" plants can survive, and the farthest north most "southern" plants can survive. It is pretty cool. Garrett County has some micro-climates that support species most commonly found in Canada, where the Eastern Shore and Southern Maryland has habitats that most closely resemble the yellow pine dominated forests of much of the South.

Maryland seems to be "in the middle" of many things.

[GoPhils]

OK I kinda just looked it up basically it's just a "hotness" scale from 1-11 with 11 being the hottest. So MD is for the most part split between 6 and 7. NC is mostly 7 and SC is 7 and 8. So IMO it's definitely safe to say SC's climate isn't very similar to MD's. I guess you could argue NC's is but it is considerably warmer on average (almost half of NC is in the "7b" zone yet only a small sliver of MD is).

BTW, NJ's climate looks pretty similar to MD. http://mgonline.com/media/Images/z/zm_nj.jpg

And since you brought up the USDA's map, in my process of looking it up I saw this: USNA - USDA Plant Hardiness Zone Map: North-East US

North-East US Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia

[KodeBlue]

Maryland isn't the south.

[Richard Martin]

Originally Posted by GoPhils

OK I kinda just looked it up basically it's just a "hotness" scale from 1-11 with 11 being the hottest. So MD is for the most part split between 6 and 7. NC is mostly 7 and SC is 7 and 8. So IMO it's definitely safe to say SC's climate isn't very similar to MD's. I guess you could argue NC's is but it is considerably warmer on average (almost half of NC is in the "7b" zone yet only a small sliver of MD is).

Having lived in MD and NC I can tell you there isn't much of a difference. The biggest difference isn't the temps. It's how long winter and summer last. It's a shorter summer and a longer winter in MD. For my area of NC we enter winter about 3 weeks later than the Annapolis area and enter spring about 3 weeks earlier. The temps in the middle of winter and summer are comparable as far as extremes go with NC being about 2 or 3 degrees warmer.

In the western part of NC it is colder and snowier than the Annapolis area. Just like in MD it's colder and snowier in the western than the eastern part of the state.

FTR, the record snowfall for my area is 16". Although it pales in comparision to some of the records in MD, it proves that even coastal NC isn't like living in the tropics.

[NYMTman]

From the National Weather Service, the 30-year average hi/low annual temperatures (in F) at BWI are 65.6/45.7. In Raleigh, 71.2/49.3. At Richmond-RIC: 69.3/48.1. At New York-Central Park: 62.6/47.9. At PHL: 64.6/47.0.

Snowfall averages for the given airports are as follows. BWI: 20.4" RDU (Raleigh): 6.0" RIC (Richmond): 10.5" PHL (Philadelphia): 22.8" NYC: 26.7"

The problem with the hardiness zones is they're based on arbitrary cutoffs. And not even arbitrary cutoffs of average temperatures, but of the absolute coldest low temp an area will see in a given year, on average.

Data avialable here. http://nowdata.rcc-acis.org/LWX/pubACIS_results replacing LWX with RAH, AKQ PHI, OKX to see different regions.

[GoPhils]

I've lived in both MD and NC (and NJ) as well and IMO I do notice a big difference (which is why I mentioned it). Maybe I'm biased though since I was only in MD for a few years and one of them happened to be during the massive snowstorm. I've only been in NC since this summer but there's only been a few days where I really couldn't wear shorts (although not saying most other people would), yet there was probably at least a 2-month span during my winters in MD where the weather was miserably cold. But I have heard it's been unseasonably warmer further north as well this season.

Sure, maybe the temperatures at different times of year may be similar, but as you said, the length of the seasons vary. I think that makes a huge difference.

But I think your second post helps illustrate my main point, which was really just that the MD climate is much more similar to NJ/PA than it is to NC. The average temperatures and snowfall totals were much closer at BWI compared to PHL and NYC (especially PHL) than compared RDU. As I said, yes, PA and NJ are closer to MD, and I'm not saying that means MD should be considered part of the northeast as NJ and PA are, but andrew seems to think that MD's climate is identical to NC and SC which means it should be considered southern, which really makes no sense IMO.