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Old 01-24-2012, 07:06 PM
 
1,021 posts, read 1,974,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
For bolded: maybe. I say that because most of my Seniors back off AP in 12th grade because they've run out of courses to take. Not every school is an Eleanor Roosevelt that cherry picks the best kids and has the staff and upper level support ($$$$$$) to offer every AP class invented. Most high schools are comprehensive and have to balance staffing, students, scheduling, etc. Want to drive a Principal crazy? Tell him he has to make an AP section for 3 kids that meets every day in a Block Schedule in a subject no one but those 3 kids want to take and have no staff member qualified to teach it. It is fun to do.

But until this year the scores didn't count. If this is the new metric it may actually render a more meaningful number.
Without being to personal, in my experience (long, long ago in a galaxy far away), I taught an AP Macroeconomic section with 30 kids enrolled of which 20 clearly did not belong, an AP Macro Gifted that was less gifted than a third AP Macro section I taught in the same term. Additionally I've taught AP Human Geography filled with students who had heard previously it was AP Coloring and have taught Honors Government with students more likely to be successful than the AP Government. My AP U.S. History sections were a massive mixed bag (but at least all juniors) and I've had 10th graders in AP European History more proficient with the course materials than the seniors. Rankings are a quantitative assessment of an educational system that is unabashedly qualitative.

But people understand rankings. If they were more empathetic toward what teachers actually deal with in the classroom their would be no arguments over their pensions or why they get summers off. Even being disgruntled over this is comical in and of itself because teachers get summers off based on the agrarian tradition of needing kids working on the farm (or the King's Dominion Amusement Park according to Virginia law) not because unions negotiated first.
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:35 AM
 
503 posts, read 695,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
For bolded: maybe. I say that because most of my Seniors back off AP in 12th grade because they've run out of courses to take. Not every school is an Eleanor Roosevelt that cherry picks the best kids and has the staff and upper level support ($$$$$$) to offer every AP class invented.
You do know that only about 25% of the school is in the science and tech program, right?

You also know that a large portion of those in the science and tech program also live in the attendance area, right?

Of course you do, but it doesn't fit your narrative to disclose that.

Further, why is it then that the other two schools with allegedly the same exact program fail to meet the same standard?

You also of course know that Roosevelt gets virtually nothing from the school system since the false perception is that they already have everything.

The rest of this school system needs to get this chip off their shoulder and spend less time blaming their failure on Roosevelt's success.
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:53 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
34,792 posts, read 44,295,495 times
Reputation: 44930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Bowman View Post
You do know that only about 25% of the school is in the science and tech program, right?

You also know that a large portion of those in the science and tech program also live in the attendance area, right?

Of course you do, but it doesn't fit your narrative to disclose that.

Further, why is it then that the other two schools with allegedly the same exact program fail to meet the same standard?

You also of course know that Roosevelt gets virtually nothing from the school system since the false perception is that they already have everything.

The rest of this school system needs to get this chip off their shoulder and spend less time blaming their failure on Roosevelt's success.
Yes I do know those things. Yes, I do know that 1/3 or more of ER students are in S&T. Yes, I do know that when the AP Coordinators meet the first question is "What does Roosevelt need?". And they get it. When the rest of us, including Flowers and Oxon Hill, ask for the same things for AP we're told there's no money.

I have no chip about ER, just the recognition that I'm tired of schools being held up as the paragons (and this includes Flowers and OH) to emulate when the rules are different for the comprehensive schools.
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Old 01-25-2012, 03:57 PM
 
503 posts, read 695,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Yes I do know those things. Yes, I do know that 1/3 or more of ER students are in S&T. Yes, I do know that when the AP Coordinators meet the first question is "What does Roosevelt need?". And they get it. When the rest of us, including Flowers and Oxon Hill, ask for the same things for AP we're told there's no money.

I have no chip about ER, just the recognition that I'm tired of schools being held up as the paragons (and this includes Flowers and OH) to emulate when the rules are different for the comprehensive schools.
25% is not 1/3

Perhaps the "comprehensive" schools ought to spend more time figuring out what makes a school like Roosevelt work as opposed to feeling sorry for themselves.

That cop out has been going on for decades and despite the county doing everything it can to bring Roosevelt down to the level of the rest of the county, they keep chugging along.
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Old 01-25-2012, 04:24 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
34,792 posts, read 44,295,495 times
Reputation: 44930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Bowman View Post
25% is not 1/3

Perhaps the "comprehensive" schools ought to spend more time figuring out what makes a school like Roosevelt work as opposed to feeling sorry for themselves.

That cop out has been going on for decades and despite the county doing everything it can to bring Roosevelt down to the level of the rest of the county, they keep chugging along.

You and I have been told different numbers. With no insult intenede I'll go with what I'm told by the school's officials.

It's not a matter of "dragging down" ER but more a matter of stopping comparing apples and bananas. Which was a conversation I had not 3 hours ago in relation to AP scores and participation. That's systemic and try as hard as is done the elephant in the room is that the comprehensive schools will never have the scores or participation that a dedicated magnet, no matter what it is, will have.


I went on a site visit last year to a dedicated performing arts magnet in Baltimore County. When I returned I was asked how we can get our theater program to the level of that school. We can't. Not unless we audition every kid, dedicate resources to a program, upgrade and offer ancillary courses, etc. The same with ER, Flowers and OH (which are the top 3 SAT/AP scores in PG). Apples and bananas.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:40 PM
 
503 posts, read 695,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
You and I have been told different numbers. With no insult intenede I'll go with what I'm told by the school's officials.

It's not a matter of "dragging down" ER but more a matter of stopping comparing apples and bananas. Which was a conversation I had not 3 hours ago in relation to AP scores and participation. That's systemic and try as hard as is done the elephant in the room is that the comprehensive schools will never have the scores or participation that a dedicated magnet, no matter what it is, will have.


I went on a site visit last year to a dedicated performing arts magnet in Baltimore County. When I returned I was asked how we can get our theater program to the level of that school. We can't. Not unless we audition every kid, dedicate resources to a program, upgrade and offer ancillary courses, etc. The same with ER, Flowers and OH (which are the top 3 SAT/AP scores in PG). Apples and bananas.
If it's the apples and bananas as you claim because Roosevelt allegedly has it all, how do you explain that the special ed students at Roosevelt outscore the comprehensive schools on the HSAs? That's certainly not the Science and Tech program now, is it?

Perhaps the teachers there just work a little harder with what they have.

And yes, PG County has done everything they can to lessen Roosevelt's quality, whether it be through adjusting boundaries to lower the population by 600 students over the last 6-8 years or refusing to put any money into the physical plant while other schools like Northwestern, Fairmount Heights, DuVal and Bladensburg get floor to ceiling renovations.
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Old 01-25-2012, 07:02 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
34,792 posts, read 44,295,495 times
Reputation: 44930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Bowman View Post
If it's the apples and bananas as you claim because Roosevelt allegedly has it all, how do you explain that the special ed students at Roosevelt outscore the comprehensive schools on the HSAs? That's certainly not the Science and Tech program now, is it?

Perhaps the teachers there just work a little harder with what they have.

And yes, PG County has done everything they can to lessen Roosevelt's quality, whether it be through adjusting boundaries to lower the population by 600 students over the last 6-8 years or refusing to put any money into the physical plant while other schools like Northwestern, Fairmount Heights, DuVal and Bladensburg get floor to ceiling renovations.

And now we bash the teachers.

You do realize ER didn't make AYP last year? Of course it was appealed, like happens with everything, and it still didn't make it.


You know as well as I do that the boundary adjustment was done to lessen overcrowding, not to "lessen ER quality". An adjustment that ER parents had been demanding for years.

The schools you mentioned were all older, by 1 or 2 generations, than ER and were falling down. A couple were in danger of being condemned, not least because of asbestos and lead. Bladensburg's cafeteria was closed by the Health Department due to insurmountable rodent and roach infestations.

You also know that ER was PG's newest high school until Flowers and Wise were built. What you may not know is which school gets the fastest maintenance service (after Sasscer is taken care of). Hint: the initials are E and R.

Why are we arguing by the way? You're obviously an ER booster while I obviously am the one who says "Whoa. If we make comparisons let's compare the same thing".
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Old 01-26-2012, 03:56 AM
 
503 posts, read 695,736 times
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Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
And now we bash the teachers.

You do realize ER didn't make AYP last year?
By one kid.....one.

One special ed student.

They failed to make AYP because of one kid in one subgroup on one portion of the test.

One.

I wonder what his attendance record looked like.

How'd the rest of the schools do that didn't make AYP?
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Old 01-26-2012, 03:57 AM
 
503 posts, read 695,736 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
You know as well as I do that the boundary adjustment was done to lessen overcrowding, not to "lessen ER quality". An adjustment that ER parents had been demanding for years.
You mean like when Metts wanted to send the 9th and 10th graders to DuVal and the 11th and 12th graders from both schools to Roosevelt?

Yea, the parents really wanted that.
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Old 01-26-2012, 04:00 AM
 
503 posts, read 695,736 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
What you may not know is which school gets the fastest maintenance service (after Sasscer is taken care of). Hint: the initials are E and R.
The principals have to pay for that maintenance too. Perhaps the principal and maintenance staff at Roosevelt value the quality of their physical plant as opposed to it becoming a roach and rat infested dump.

Explain why the new schools already are filthy and coming apart at the seams and a 35 year old school looks better.
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