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View Poll Results: Will Gay Marriage Get Passed in MD?
Yes 36 80.00%
No 5 11.11%
Yes, but not this year 4 8.89%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-21-2012, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
5,257 posts, read 8,454,389 times
Reputation: 3690

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The State needs to get out of the marriage business all together. Instead, the State should just recognize valid contracts made between individuals. A breach of that contract is a civil matter that can be decided by the courts (divorce.)

No special treatment for any relationships, 1 man/1 woman, 1 man/1 man, 8 woman/1 man (the poor soul ) etc.

The only exception to the state not recognizing special relationships that I can see would be not recognizing "marriage" style contracts between parent/child (no not because incest, because of inheritance laws) and recognizing a parent/child relationship. Other than that find a church/lawyer/spit and a handshake and have at it people

 
Old 02-22-2012, 09:34 AM
 
1,783 posts, read 3,447,315 times
Reputation: 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatkins View Post
Let's get a few things clear, first I'm not a right winger. Stereotypes don't get you very far in life and make you look stupid.

Second, I'm not a religious nut as you call it. I am a believer and follower of Jesus Christ. What the Bible says about homosexuality isn't nuts, its simple and practical.
Simple and practical...unless you happen to actually be gay then it becomes persecutory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meatkins View Post
Notice you haven't seen me calling gays outside their name or saying we should kill them all? Maybe you should re-assess what you consider a nut. I've met people who are far more intolerant than what you perceive me to be. Just because I disagree with something and have an opinion doesn't make me a nut. I have an opinion just like you do.
"Look, I don't hate gay people! I don't even want to kill them! I just don't want them to be able to marry. Or adopt kids. Or be considered "normal"


Quote:
Originally Posted by meatkins View Post
And to answer your question, it has been known that gays want homosexuality to be a part of sex education in schools. It is also known that they want same-sex couples to be taught in schools as families the same way as a traditional family would be. Me personally, I don't want my children to be forced to believe something is right, that is not right. I do not believe my children should be forced to accept homosexuality as being 'normal' behavior.
You sound like a reasonable and intelligent person so I have a hard time believing that you believe this. You mean to tell me, you actually think, in your heart of hearts, that we should deny homosexuals a basic human right so that you don't have to have an awkward conversation with your kids? Because that is basically what you said.

Let's say that homosexually was taught in sex education as normal (the horror! ). Your kids come home and tell you what they learned. As a parent who wishes to instill your values in your kids, you should have no problem telling them that you disagree with that position. I mean, who out there agrees 100% with everything their kid is taught in school? Why can't you instill your moral values in your children at home and at Sunday school? Besides, if it's that much of an issue for you, you can opt for a private, Christian education.

On the topic at hand, I do think that Maryland will pass gay marriage, and I applaud them for it. Discrimination against homosexuals is one of the last bastions of institutionalized bigotry in our country. One day in the future, people will look at our current laws and think we are as backwards as we now think people were when they supported segregation in the 1960's.
 
Old 02-22-2012, 10:49 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 12,004,677 times
Reputation: 3186
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoxing View Post
You sound like a reasonable and intelligent person so I have a hard time believing that you believe this. You mean to tell me, you actually think, in your heart of hearts, that we should deny homosexuals a basic human right so that you don't have to have an awkward conversation with your kids? Because that is basically what you said.

Let's say that homosexually was taught in sex education as normal (the horror! ). Your kids come home and tell you what they learned. As a parent who wishes to instill your values in your kids, you should have no problem telling them that you disagree with that position. I mean, who out there agrees 100% with everything their kid is taught in school? Why can't you instill your moral values in your children at home and at Sunday school? Besides, if it's that much of an issue for you, you can opt for a private, Christian education.
Marriage is a right? I must have missed that in government class. I always thought it was a privilege. That's like saying driving is a right. Just like driving though, you have to apply for a licenses and meet certain standards, so how exactly does marriage qualify as a right?

And the problem with it being taught, is because my tax dollars are being used for something that is wrong! Do schools teach things that I don't agree with? Sure and that's why I would have the same issue with that as I would if it was something else, but let's get one thing understood there is a huge difference between what was the first capital in the USA and whether homosexuality is okay. Do you even have children? Children are highly impressionable and getting conflicting views on a topic as important as sex is not good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoxing View Post
On the topic at hand, I do think that Maryland will pass gay marriage, and I applaud them for it. Discrimination against homosexuals is one of the last bastions of institutionalized bigotry in our country. One day in the future, people will look at our current laws and think we are as backwards as we now think people were when they supported segregation in the 1960's.
What discrimination is there? And please don't compare homosexuals plight with the plight of blacks, it sounds as though you don't understand history. I don't remember seeing gays being told to sit on the back of the bus or hung, or having their churches burned down. I guess I missed those news stories...
 
Old 02-22-2012, 10:59 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 12,004,677 times
Reputation: 3186
This thread is a prime example of what happens when you get a hot button topic and you get overly sensitive irrational people. Instead of understanding what someone is saying, people read a few words and jump to conclusions. Let me clear up a few things that have been assumed that aren't true.

I never suggested that anyone who is abused is gay. I NEVER SAID ANYONE WHO IS ABUSED IS GAY. I said the majority of gays have been abused. Suggesting that I said anyone who is gay is true is like saying:
White people are human beings, therefore human beings are white. Does that really make sense, because that's basically what people are doing with my statement.

Second, I never said incest and bestiality are the same as homosexuality. They are similar but they are not the same. I just asked how do you know that incest and bestiality is wrong, but know that homosexuality is right? It was a simple question about morality, but instead of answering the question, again people jumped to irrational conclusions.

It's amazing how people can misread simple statements....
 
Old 02-22-2012, 11:44 AM
 
1,783 posts, read 3,447,315 times
Reputation: 1380
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatkins View Post
Marriage is a right? I must have missed that in government class. I always thought it was a privilege. That's like saying driving is a right. Just like driving though, you have to apply for a licenses and meet certain standards, so how exactly does marriage qualify as a right?

And the problem with it being taught, is because my tax dollars are being used for something that is wrong! Do schools teach things that I don't agree with? Sure and that's why I would have the same issue with that as I would if it was something else, but let's get one thing understood there is a huge difference between what was the first capital in the USA and whether homosexuality is okay. Do you even have children? Children are highly impressionable and getting conflicting views on a topic as important as sex is not good.
And guess what? No matter what you teach your kids about sex, they are going to get "conflicting views" on it. Their friends will tell them one thing, you tell them another, MTV tells them another, the school tells them another and so on and so forth. Regardless, your point that allowing gay marriage then forces children to accept that gay=normal despite what their parents, peers, or others might think is just not in line with reality.

To turn your argument on its head, we allow interracial marriage, correct? But do you think there are kids and their parents out there who are strongly opposed to it still and think it's "unnatural?" Of course there are. Let me guess "But that kind of discrimination is wrong! My kind of discrimination is right!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by meatkins View Post
What discrimination is there? And please don't compare homosexuals plight with the plight of blacks, it sounds as though you don't understand history. I don't remember seeing gays being told to sit on the back of the bus or hung, or having their churches burned down. I guess I missed those news stories...
You can't possibly be this ignorant. Gay people aren't discriminated against? Get a freaking clue. Most states have NO laws preventing an employer from firing someone because they are gay. Many gay couples face massive hurdles trying to adopt children. And of course they can't marry each other in the vast majority of states. And no gay people were killed for being gay???? That is so offensive and clueless that it makes me wonder if you are just being facetious.

Of course the plight of homosexuals isn't the same as blacks, but they are still definitely discriminated against. I doubt many people on either side of this debate would argue against that!
 
Old 02-22-2012, 12:09 PM
 
Location: East Coast
866 posts, read 2,356,238 times
Reputation: 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoxing View Post
Gay people aren't discriminated against? Get a freaking clue. Most states have NO laws preventing an employer from firing someone because they are gay. Many gay couples face massive hurdles trying to adopt children. And of course they can't marry each other in the vast majority of states. And no gay people were killed for being gay???? That is so offensive and clueless that it makes me wonder if you are just being facetious.

Of course the plight of homosexuals isn't the same as blacks, but they are still definitely discriminated against. I doubt many people on either side of this debate would argue against that!
Exactly. We aren't being oversensitive and irrational. Many gay people have to live in actual fear of discrimination and even physical harm because some people continue to believe that it is some sort of unnatural disorder.

Ask yourself what would happen if your child was gay? Would you continue to point out that he or she is unnatural and that there is something wrong with him or her?

Also, where is your source for the claim that the majority of gay people have been abused or neglected?
 
Old 02-22-2012, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Long Island, N.Y.
119 posts, read 221,536 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by meatkins View Post

I never suggested that anyone who is abused is gay. I NEVER SAID ANYONE WHO IS ABUSED IS GAY. I said the majority of gays have been abused.
Do you have any data to back this up? Do you even know any 'real' gay people, or have you been watching overtly religious documentaries like others who claim the same?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meatkins View Post
Second, I never said incest and bestiality are the same as homosexuality. They are similar but they are not the same. I just asked how do you know that incest and bestiality is wrong, but know that homosexuality is right?
How do you know that homosexuality is on the same level as incest and bestiality, even though it's clearly not?
 
Old 02-22-2012, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,205 posts, read 22,788,986 times
Reputation: 6183
Quote:
Originally Posted by sobo16 View Post
Ask yourself what would happen if your child was gay? Would you continue to point out that he or she is unnatural and that there is something wrong with him or her?
Dick Chaney is a pretty hardcore Conservative. What does he think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meatkins View Post
Marriage is a right? I must have missed that in government class. I always thought it was a privilege. That's like saying driving is a right.
Anyone can drive as long as they meet a bear-minimum requirement: for the most part, they are at least 16 and have passed the driving test. Now, imagine if everyone can drive except for those with glasses...even if they have received corrective surgery. Homosexuals can participate in pretty much every aspect of life in the U.S. except for the right to marry.

So, if marriage is a privaledge, then only the privelidged can participate? Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it. Dislike homosexuals all you want, but keep in mind that gays serve in the miliatry (and die for our, your country); they are firefighters, police officers, doctors, teachers, politicians, family members, etc. So, they can serve (openly or not) our country, yet, they cannot get married?

Believe what you want; just keep in mind that "homosexuals" are not going away and are a part of our society, as well as the World. You know, when these situations come up, I am always reminded of that one All In The Family episode where Archie gets a blood transfusion from a black dude. Some day, or perhaps already, you are going to benefit from the service of a homosexual in one way or another. A rescue worker, a doctor, a vet, a kind citizen, etc. who just happens to be gay may one day save your life.

I'll add this: gay marriage gives you more freedoms! Yes, it does. For one, you will have the freedom to NOT participate in gay marriage, which, incidentally, is a freedom you currently do not have. It will also give you more freedom in choosing who to marry. Another thing, churches already have the freedom to deny marriage to those who they do not "see fit" to be married in their church. It is perfectly legal for a church to not marry interfaith couples...or even interracial couples if they so desire. And if a church chooses to participate in gay marriage, you can choose not to participate in that church.

Look, I do not want to get down with a man, and dudes who hit on me creep me out I will admit. But, what they do with their lives is none of my business. If they want to get married, then I say let them go for it! It'll be a boom for the economy, too. If it is "wrong", well, if there is a God up above it is up to him and only him to decide.



Now, going back to the OP: of course their will be an effort to overturn this proposal. It will be put to a vote by the residents of Maryland to decide.
 
Old 02-22-2012, 05:29 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 12,004,677 times
Reputation: 3186
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoxing View Post
And guess what? No matter what you teach your kids about sex, they are going to get "conflicting views" on it. Their friends will tell them one thing, you tell them another, MTV tells them another, the school tells them another and so on and so forth. Regardless, your point that allowing gay marriage then forces children to accept that gay=normal despite what their parents, peers, or others might think is just not in line with reality.
But guess what, that doesn't mean I have to tolerate it. Of course there will be other people who will say the same things, but if I have influence to control who does, why wouldn't I? I'm expressing my opinion, that is all. Should I accept something just because everyone else is doing it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoxing View Post
To turn your argument on its head, we allow interracial marriage, correct? But do you think there are kids and their parents out there who are strongly opposed to it still and think it's "unnatural?" Of course there are. Let me guess "But that kind of discrimination is wrong! My kind of discrimination is right!"
No, not the case. Again, I will say it's all about your basis of morality. We can argue all day but if you don't have the same standard of what's right and wrong then it won't matter. I do not believe there is anything wrong with interracial marriage because my moral compass, The Holy Bible, does not forbid it. Simple as that. If you disagree that's your prerogative, I'm just stating my beliefs. I don't necessarily think it's about what we all perceive to be right or wrong. It's based on the individual. Again it's just my opinion. If your ideas of right or wrong are based on what the media tells you then more power to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoxing View Post
You can't possibly be this ignorant. Gay people aren't discriminated against? Get a freaking clue. Most states have NO laws preventing an employer from firing someone because they are gay. Many gay couples face massive hurdles trying to adopt children. And of course they can't marry each other in the vast majority of states. And no gay people were killed for being gay???? That is so offensive and clueless that it makes me wonder if you are just being facetious.
What kind of comprehension skills do you have? I didn't say that gays haven't been discriminated against, I said there is no discrimination compared to the blacks in the 1960s, which is the ridiculous comparison that you made. The struggles of gays does not even began to compare to blacks. You are talking about things that affected thousands, the things that happened in the 60s affected millions. Comparing the two, there is no comparison. Can you honestly, HONESTLY say that gays are being killed at the same rate as blacks in the 60s? Can you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoxing View Post
Of course the plight of homosexuals isn't the same as blacks, but they are still definitely discriminated against. I doubt many people on either side of this debate would argue against that!
All groups are discriminated against, that's just how society is. Gays are taking the same cue that women are taking. Everyone wants a voice. Again this is not discrimination or marriage inequality, this is about redefining marriage. Gays can't marry someone of the same sex just like heterosexuals can't either. So how are our rights different? Everyone has to abide by the same laws. The word inequality is used as propaganda to equate this 'struggle' to the civil rights movement, but the two movements are not the same.
 
Old 02-22-2012, 06:03 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 12,004,677 times
Reputation: 3186
Quote:
Originally Posted by L.I.N.Y. View Post
Do you have any data to back this up? Do you even know any 'real' gay people, or have you been watching overtly religious documentaries like others who claim the same?
Sexual Abuse: A Major Cause Of Homosexuality?

I think this piece explains things very well.

I just gave you example of 3 of the most famous gays. I can add on: Elton John was abused by his father, Josephine Baker was abused at a young age too, writer James Baldwin was abused by his adoptive father. You can find many more by doing a google search just as I have done.

I'm not trying to suggest that all gays have been abused, but clearly there is a trend. It should not be ignored. I personally know quite a few women who are gay and the things that they have in common are their view of men. They do not believe men are capable of loving them because of how men have treated them and they go to women for affection. This can't be a coincidence that these women keep saying the same thing. There is no scientific way to prove it unless people are open about these things, but how many people do you know will openly admit to abuse? It's difficult, but the fact that it is found as often as it is, it certain adds traction to the studies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.I.N.Y. View Post
How do you know that homosexuality is on the same level as incest and bestiality, even though it's clearly not?
Answer my question first and I will answer yours. Thank you.
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