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I have to say that I'm tired of the political mumbo jumbo when it comes to deciding if gambling coming to PG County is good or not. There is too much information being put out there based on trying to persuade people, instead of giving facts and letting people decide for themselves. Both sides of this debate are airing misleading ads about what gambling really means for Prince George's County:
AGAINST:
Prince George's County officials and the developers of National Harbor may have cut a backroom deal for exclusive rights to build the casino in Prince George's County.
Whether this is true or not, suggesting this in a commercial/effort without evidence to support it is pretty dangerous. What have you done to convince me, as a voter, that this is indeed the truth? There isn't anything that suggest that we can draw a complete conclusion that they indeed did this for the reasons to build a casino.
Quote:
National Harbor has failed to deliver on its promises of local jobs. Worse, only 12 contracts (of more than 300) were awarded to Prince George's County minority contractors.
Although National Harbor hasn't delivered the jobs that it initial anticipated, I think we should put this in perspective, jobs aren't exactly coming to PG in droves. Relatively speaking, in spite of not meeting expectations, the National Harbor has contributed more jobs to this county than any other entity in the past 4+ years. I think that speaks more on the difficulty this county has had getting jobs, then National Harbor failing to deliver jobs to be honest.
Claim No. 2: The second claim is fairly vague, merely stating that a "resort casino" in Prince George's County would create "thousands" of "good paying jobs." These would include temporary construction positions, new service jobs and dealer jobs at table games.
This is completely laughable. Baltimore Sun pointed out that the average salary for employees at the MGM casino in Detroit shows that the average full-time salary (including wages, tips and employee meals) is $55,474 a year. Of course cost of living would make this number go up, but even with that said, is that really what this county needs? At this point, further out suburbs like Charles, Stafford, Prince William and Stafford County have surpassed this county despite being mostly bedroom counties, so would adding another large employer really do much to change the economics of this county? In other words how do you demand upscale, high-level retail and other types of development when you aren't attracting a population of workers to match that vision? Are these good paying jobs? Sure, but what does that really mean in this region?
Quote:
There’s the Building Trades for the National Harbor, a union-led coalition that argues Maryland will forgo $1 billion in new revenue for schools and such, if it passes on the sixth casino.
Again, another misleading statement. Who is to say that the money that is earned from the casino will go to schools? Isn't it possible that this can change, depending on what is needed? This is really not about the schools at all. It is possible that the school systems will benefit as a product, but there is no guarantee.
What do you all think about this debate? What do you think about the efforts being made on each side to convince voters?
Last edited by justtitans; 09-02-2012 at 08:49 PM..
I have to say that I'm tired of the political mumbo jumbo when it comes to deciding if gambling coming to PG County is good or not. There is too much information being put out there based on trying to persuade people, instead of giving facts and letting people decide for themselves. Both sides of this debate are airing misleading ads about what gambling really means for Prince George's County:
AGAINST:
Get the Facts - No On 7
Whether this is true or not, suggesting this in a commercial/effort without evidence to support it is pretty dangerous. What have you done to convince me, as a voter, that this is indeed the truth? There isn't anything that suggest that we can draw a complete conclusion that they indeed did this for the reasons to build a casino.
Although National Harbor hasn't delivered the jobs that it initial anticipated, I think we should put this in perspective, jobs aren't exactly coming to PG in droves. Relatively speaking, in spite of not meeting expectations, the National Harbor has contributed more jobs to this county than any other entity in the past 4+ years. I think that speaks more on the difficulty this county has had getting jobs, then National Harbor failing to deliver jobs to be honest.
This is completely laughable. Baltimore Sun pointed out that the average salary for employees at the MGM casino in Detroit shows that the average full-time salary (including wages, tips and employee meals) is $55,474 a year. Of course cost of living would make this number go up, but even with that said, is that really what this county needs? At this point, further out suburbs like Charles, Stafford, Prince William and Stafford County have surpassed this county despite being mostly bedroom counties, so would adding another large employer really do much to change the economics of this county? In other words how do you demand upscale, high-level retail and other types of development when you aren't attracting a population of workers to match that vision? Are these good paying jobs? Sure, but what does that really mean in this region?
Again, another misleading statement. Who is to say that the money that is earned from the casino will go to schools? Isn't it possible that this can change, depending on what is needed? This is really not about the schools at all. It is possible that the school systems will benefit as a product, but there is no guarantee.
What do you all think about this debate? What do you think about the efforts being made on each side to convince voters?
The debate itself is simply white noise like all of the other banter that is going on between competing sides. Considering its visibility it's not surprising that so much energy and money is on the table to get voters to vote yes or no. As with any political races going on at the moment it should be expected that both sides will color/blur the lines of reality in their favor. That's why its important for any voter (be they for or against) not to rely solely on the media to help them make the best decision for them.
As a proponent for the development of the NH casino resort, one thing that gets me is the constant slam on the average job wages. Yes the more money a person makes the better but if you are unemployed and or struggling a job is a job. Especially in this economy. When I first moved into this are after graduating from college my salary was less than 30K. Would I have liked to have made more money? Sure but the reality was it wasn't happening. Was I glad that I at least had some form of income? Definitely and over time it the salary got better but I had to start somewhere. So if a casino resort will bring jobs that will employ those who are not employed then I am for it.
Last edited by UrbanScholar; 09-02-2012 at 10:11 PM..
Wow, what do the govvies here do to look down upon people making $55.5K a year? I KNOW how much many govvie positions make (from the military to the State Department) and let me tell you that $55.5K, although on the low-end is still a respectable wage, especially for a secondary earner in a household. Maybe if the unemployed stopped getting off their GD high horses and accept a wage that they think is 'under them' instead of holding out for that next dream job then unemployment might actually go down. On another thread someone was bashing $100K as being 'mediocre' as a salary. Well shoot, I make less than that and I am supporting a whole frigging family by myself. We're not living richly by any means, but at least we're doing okay and we were able to purchase a house that's definitely valued far more than the houses that dot western PG County.
Sigh. You know what? It doesn't even matter. The casino is coming, and UrbanScholar described the debate on this inevitability perfectly: that it is 'white noise'. All the rhetoric being thrown around is meaningless, and I can't honestly understand why I keep getting pulled into reading this stupid thread.
Wow, what do the govvies here do to look down upon people making $55.5K a year? I KNOW how much many govvie positions make (from the military to the State Department) and let me tell you that $55.5K, although on the low-end is still a respectable wage, especially for a secondary earner in a household. Maybe if the unemployed stopped getting off their GD high horses and accept a wage that they think is 'under them' instead of holding out for that next dream job then unemployment might actually go down. On another thread someone was bashing $100K as being 'mediocre' as a salary. Well shoot, I make less than that and I am supporting a whole frigging family by myself. We're not living richly by any means, but at least we're doing okay and we were able to purchase a house that's definitely valued far more than the houses that dot western PG County.
Sigh. You know what? It doesn't even matter. The casino is coming, and UrbanScholar described the debate on this inevitability perfectly: that it is 'white noise'. All the rhetoric being thrown around is meaningless, and I can't honestly understand why I keep getting pulled into reading this stupid thread.
You conveniently glossed over my point when I said "Are these good paying jobs? Sure but what does that really mean in this region?"
I never said that these weren't good paying jobs, I just said it doesn't fit the vision that this county is reaching for. Again we are behind counties which are further away from the city and have less jobs. This is a county that wants to get in the conversation of being up there with Montgomery and Fairfax counties. How is that possible when you are adding jobs that lower the median income? In this region unfortunately $55k, isn't going to change where we are at. It is below our current median income, $71k, so even with a COLA adjustment, it wouldn't even meet the median income. So again I ask, if this county is trying bring in high income residents to justify the cost at newer developments like National Harbor, how is that vision reached if you are adding jobs that don't even reach the median income? Actually here's a better question, how many people making $55k a year would even be able to afford a place down at National Harbor, where they would be working?
Gee, have you ever thought why the local McDonalds along Indianhead Highway is always staffed by such young looking - possibly high-school age - employees? These types of jobs are perfect for part-time students that live with their parents; as I said, SECONDARY earners. To criticize job creation simply because it doesn't meet the median income is ridiculous. The median home income in Fort Washington is ~$101K. So if you were to divide that in half, it would be $50.5K, which is less than the median income. How is that possible? Oh that's right, because secondary earners tend to make much less, but hey when you look at the whole median family income it's more than sufficient to live in the area. Oh, what about Oxon Hill? Well their median HOUSEHOLD income is only $55.5K... by that standard, one single job granting $55K is an IMPROVEMENT. I know ya'll are elitists, but geez.
Gee, have you ever thought why the local McDonalds along Indianhead Highway is always staffed by such young looking - possibly high-school age - employees? These types of jobs are perfect for part-time students that live with their parents; as I said, SECONDARY earners. To criticize job creation simply because it doesn't meet the median income is ridiculous. The median home income in Fort Washington is ~$101K. So if you were to divide that in half, it would be $50.5K, which is less than the median income. How is that possible? Oh that's right, because secondary earners tend to make much less, but hey when you look at the whole median family income it's more than sufficient to live in the area. Oh, what about Oxon Hill? Well their median HOUSEHOLD income is only $55.5K... by that standard, one single job granting $55K is an IMPROVEMENT. I know ya'll are elitists, but geez.
(Note: All stats quoted from City Data)
You aren't really taking my words in it's full context. It's not about the job not meeting the median income, it's about you building housing that is more and more expensive and bringing in jobs that pay less and less. It makes no sense. If you want to bring people into the county to live in these places, you need to provide jobs that match what you expect those people to make. This is similar to Reston Town Center. This is supposed to be a mixed use development. People who work in these places are the ideal people to live there and shop there. That's the point. If you build a casino there with those type of salaries, most of those people aren't going to be paying the $600k+ rowhouses down there so how does this make any sense? This is the stupidity with development in this county. If people are going to pay these prices to live in these places and still not be able to work there, then why would they choose these places over some where in VA or DC? And if you are making $55k, then you are likely not going to live down there. This is supposed to be the principle employer in this development and most of the people you are going to have to work there won't even be able to afford to live there? You are basically make this place even more car-dependent as opposed to not, which was the original vision.
I am confident that the good people of Gorgeous Prince George's County will vote the casino bill down. Too many times we've said we do not want a casino in our county but Sen. Mike Miller of Calvert wouldn't let it rest. His family sold Rose Croft and probably promised to bring gambling to us. R. Baker wasn't for gambling until he took office and then turn coated on the people who elected him. I'll be proud when we again give a resounding "NO" in November. Then remember to vote out every politician who didn't listen to his constitutents.
You aren't really taking my words in it's full context. It's not about the job not meeting the median income, it's about you building housing that is more and more expensive and bringing in jobs that pay less and less. It makes no sense. If you want to bring people into the county to live in these places, you need to provide jobs that match what you expect those people to make. This is similar to Reston Town Center. This is supposed to be a mixed use development. People who work in these places are the ideal people to live there and shop there. That's the point. If you build a casino there with those type of salaries, most of those people aren't going to be paying the $600k+ rowhouses down there so how does this make any sense? This is the stupidity with development in this county. If people are going to pay these prices to live in these places and still not be able to work there, then why would they choose these places over some where in VA or DC? And if you are making $55k, then you are likely not going to live down there. This is supposed to be the principle employer in this development and most of the people you are going to have to work there won't even be able to afford to live there? You are basically make this place even more car-dependent as opposed to not, which was the original vision.
I see your point but the same could be said for people who work in DC, Herndon, or Gaithersburg but living somewhere else more affordable. It seems that this argument also assumes that there is only one income in the household. That may not be everyone's situation. The other assumption being made is that this will be the principle employer in National Harbor for the life of the Harbor and I find that hard to believe. This area is at the very beginning of a growth period that I believe will see a variety of businesses come in the next 10 -12 years. Like other areas that have gone through a transition, there needs to be things to do, places to eat, etc. before the bulk of businesses really consider locating there.
Last edited by UrbanScholar; 09-03-2012 at 08:15 PM..
Don't get me wrong, I believe in people being given reasonable wages. I think we just disagree as to the situation is considered reasonable or not. And you're looking at things half empty. This development as you said yourself is the principal business generator in this part of PG county. What is the alternative? Nothing. Hopefully this will serve as the catalyst needed to increase commercial development. With more development comes more competitive salaries, which will inevitably cause salaries related to the casino development to rise in the future as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtitans
You are basically make this place even more car-dependent as opposed to not, which was the original vision.
Well, I guess that's why it's good that there's talk of the casinos also working on expanding the road arteries, eh?
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