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Old 03-19-2013, 10:25 AM
 
23,837 posts, read 21,022,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
So you're an elitist? Why should there be a minimum educational requirement? Name, please, another elective office that has an educational requirement. I'll give you judges. Now, name the others.
Call me an elitist or what you will. The bottom line is that the Prince George's school system is bottom ranked in the State of Maryland and it is not without coincidence that such a title comes with it a School Board that has little in the way of higher education to guide the ship. How does that make sense? Why don't we just start hiring teachers with merely a high school diploma? I'm sure you'll be flocking to the schools that enact such a policy, right?
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:39 AM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 12,379,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
Using your logic, no one should be a leader in any field if they aren't bona fide experts in that field. I disagree with you. But i'll play along with you. Tell me how being a high school graduate prepares one for a leadership role in the State's second largest school system? What credentials did these "leaders" achieve? They certainly aren't teachers. They certainly aren't principals. So what, exactly, gives them specific insight? For all we know, they eeked their way through high school. And these are people who should be directing the educational trajectory of local children? LOL

At a minimum, these "leaders" should show that they have committed themselves to higher education before asserting that they have what it takes to run a school system.
You are parsing my words. I didn't just say any high school graduate. I'm talking about one that has been involved in the system in some capacity, which in my example was being an involved PARENT. Having a degree does not guarantee anything. It's the experience that matters. In the district that I voted in, there were candidates that had degrees and had experience but they lost because they either had very little or no recent classroom experiences. A good school board has diversity across the board so that they can tackle the important issues that affects things across the board. A teacher that doesn't have children, is not going to understand a parent's perspective, an administrator who hasn't taught in a classroom in years is not going to understand the modern rigors of being a classroom teacher, etc.

Of course they should have some expertise. Having a degree doesn't mean you have expertise. There are teachers who would not be capable of being on the board. And that's the point. Your degree doesn't mean anything if you have allowed yourself to become further involved in the school system. Most school boards in our area, have people who have been involved with organizations/groups that ingrain them deep in the school systems and so they understand the ends and outs of it.

You keep bringing up the degree but that's not what matter. It's the experience.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:15 PM
 
23,837 posts, read 21,022,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgtvatitans View Post
You are parsing my words. I didn't just say any high school graduate. I'm talking about one that has been involved in the system in some capacity, which in my example was being an involved PARENT. Having a degree does not guarantee anything. It's the experience that matters. In the district that I voted in, there were candidates that had degrees and had experience but they lost because they either had very little or no recent classroom experiences. A good school board has diversity across the board so that they can tackle the important issues that affects things across the board. A teacher that doesn't have children, is not going to understand a parent's perspective, an administrator who hasn't taught in a classroom in years is not going to understand the modern rigors of being a classroom teacher, etc.

Of course they should have some expertise. Having a degree doesn't mean you have expertise. There are teachers who would not be capable of being on the board. And that's the point. Your degree doesn't mean anything if you have allowed yourself to become further involved in the school system. Most school boards in our area, have people who have been involved with organizations/groups that ingrain them deep in the school systems and so they understand the ends and outs of it.

You keep bringing up the degree but that's not what matter. It's the experience.
It goes without saying that **most** people who have achieved higher education have put that education to work and have achieved the experience that you mention. I shouldn't have to explain that the degree itself is not the qualifier. I guess some things need to be spelled out. :/

Would you hire a teacher without a degree? If not, then why not? Is it because you believe the leadership is a less essential entity and therefore should not be held to the same standards as a teacher?

I wholeheartedly disagree with you. Someone with leadership ability, experience, and skill needs to be in charge of a school system. This usually comes from those who have attained higher education. Afterall, that's what higher education is all about. And this is precisely why Rushern Baker is stepping up to the plate to wrest control from a perhaps well-meaning, but lightly educated Board. To me, this is just plain ole common sense.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:24 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
31,385 posts, read 69,874,183 times
Reputation: 37499
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
This is all fine and dandy except the Prince George's experiment is an abyssmal failure.
It sounds like you have an issue with these people in particular...
but the broad brush approach of indicting anyone without higher education is just absurd.

Someone with all your education and the insight that is supposed to produce should see this.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:36 PM
 
Location: DMV
10,136 posts, read 12,379,940 times
Reputation: 3187
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
It goes without saying that **most** people who have achieved higher education have put that education to work and have achieved the experience that you mention. I shouldn't have to explain that the degree itself is not the qualifier. I guess some things need to be spelled out. :/

Would you hire a teacher without a degree? If not, then why not? Is it because you believe the leadership is a less essential entity and therefore should not be held to the same standards as a teacher?

I wholeheartedly disagree with you. Someone with leadership ability, experience, and skill needs to be in charge of a school system. This usually comes from those who have attained higher education. Afterall, that's what higher education is all about. And this is precisely why Rushern Baker is stepping up to the plate to wrest control from a perhaps well-meaning, but lightly educated Board. To me, this is just plain ole common sense.
Are we talking about requirements or are we talking about the makeup of the board? You keep inferring that everybody on the board is going to have no degrees and run the school system. I'm not saying that the school board should be ran by people who all don't have degrees. All I'm saying is it shouldn't disqualify someone from being eligible if they have a great deal of experience and voters found that person to be adequate. Just because you don't require people to not have degrees doesn't mean that is the people who will end up on the board.

Having an education and being in the education field are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS! A person who has a engineering degree was at one point a student, but that doesn't mean they know how to go into a classroom, prepare a lesson plan, manage a classroom, write a curriculum, etc. etc. The premise of your argument is completely flawed because you fail to distinguish the experience of being a student and being an educator. If we followed your logic, then we should get rid of the education degree all together because basically anyone with a degree would be able to teach. That's your logic.

Being a teacher and being an elected official is two different things. If people believe that a person without a degree is qualified enough to help run their school system, then who are we to tell these people otherwise. The issue isn't about how qualified the board members are, it's about how much information residents are actually using to elect competent people. If residents elect people who don't do a good job, is it really because the person doesn't have a degree or because residents are doing more to make sure that this individual is qualified for the position?

Clearly you have some issues. I agree with Mr. Rational, you have some type of agenda because why else would you bring up something that was discussed almost 5 months ago?
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:21 PM
 
1,021 posts, read 2,042,948 times
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I'm with AeroGuyDC on this one. It doesn't matter if you have chosen to teach with your graduate degree. If you have a Masters' you SHOULD be able to go into any classroom and teach the subject of your degree down to at least a middle school level to students that would have the appropriate cognitive ability. If not, you did not receive a graduate-level education.

I'm not sure what others post-baccalaureate experiences were like, but it certainly wasn't mandated by No Child Left Behind. In my graduate education, I didn't memorize facts about the subject and regurgitate them on tests. I researched and critically analyzed information; this extends beyond just the subject matter of my degree. Even though I do have extensive graduate level education experience, even without it I am confident I could step into an administrative or instructional position in flourish because I know I can effectively research and process the information I need to know. Isn't that what a Masters' program is? That is why you get certified in Social Studies, Science, or Math on the K-12 level. Even if you did not specifically major in History, Biology, or Finite Mathematics, your Bachelors' in a related field has given you enough exposure that you can become more learned on the specific subject you are teaching.

I'm sorry, but just having kids go through a school system does not make you more effective in governing that system. That would assume any individual living in the county for more than five years would be qualified to be the County Executive just because they "know people" and "know how stuff works around here". That smacks of parochialism and a good 'ol boy network. Wouldn't you think that is why there are so many complaints of people getting hired into PG County Schools positions based on who they know? No there isn't a minimum qualifications requirement for elected officials like there are who those getting hired into positions, but I would think it beneficial for a county with a poor reputation of academics to at least have office seekers that have educational qualifications that EXCEED those of the educators they are governing, much less equal them. For those of us who have worked in education, you don't fully respect an individual you work under if they have less qualifications. I must say it is comforting to know that the president of the school board of my kids' school system has a "Dr." in front of his name. Even though it is a Doctorate in Applied Physics from Yale and not education, you know, I think he might be a smart guy!
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:31 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
36,583 posts, read 47,243,081 times
Reputation: 47514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post
I'm with AeroGuyDC on this one. It doesn't matter if you have chosen to teach with your graduate degree. If you have a Masters' you SHOULD be able to go into any classroom and teach the subject of your degree down to at least a middle school level to students that would have the appropriate cognitive ability. If not, you did not receive a graduate-level education.

I'm not sure what others post-baccalaureate experiences were like, but it certainly wasn't mandated by No Child Left Behind. In my graduate education, I didn't memorize facts about the subject and regurgitate them on tests. I researched and critically analyzed information; this extends beyond just the subject matter of my degree. Even though I do have extensive graduate level education experience, even without it I am confident I could step into an administrative or instructional position in flourish because I know I can effectively research and process the information I need to know. Isn't that what a Masters' program is? That is why you get certified in Social Studies, Science, or Math on the K-12 level. Even if you did not specifically major in History, Biology, or Finite Mathematics, your Bachelors' in a related field has given you enough exposure that you can become more learned on the specific subject you are teaching.

I'm sorry, but just having kids go through a school system does not make you more effective in governing that system. That would assume any individual living in the county for more than five years would be qualified to be the County Executive just because they "know people" and "know how stuff works around here". That smacks of parochialism and a good 'ol boy network. Wouldn't you think that is why there are so many complaints of people getting hired into PG County Schools positions based on who they know? No there isn't a minimum qualifications requirement for elected officials like there are who those getting hired into positions, but I would think it beneficial for a county with a poor reputation of academics to at least have office seekers that have educational qualifications that EXCEED those of the educators they are governing, much less equal them. For those of us who have worked in education, you don't fully respect an individual you work under if they have less qualifications. I must say it is comforting to know that the president of the school board of my kids' school system has a "Dr." in front of his name. Even though it is a Doctorate in Applied Physics from Yale and not education, you know, I think he might be a smart guy!
Ok.

So Mr. "I can teach rings around everybody because I HAVE A MASTER'S".

Construct, right now, a sample lesson plan on, Classical Conditioning let's say. In the FFT format recently adopted.
Post the Lesson Objective using the correct format.
Incorporate the SAT Word of the Day.
Infuse technology in the the lesson for each student. You're not in the lab by the way, nor can the kids use their phones.
Remember, at least 5 of the 37 kids have a 504 Educational Plan which you have to follow. Two more have IEPs and spend the rest of their day in Special Ed classes. You'll have to differentiate the lesson for them.
Use an in class demonstration.
Be sure to include not only guided practice but also independent practice.
Also remember closure. Your lesson must last the entire period, no letting the kids work on the homework the last 10 minutes.

It doesn't matter if you can process the living **** out of information, your job is to teach that information to the students.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:01 PM
 
1,021 posts, read 2,042,948 times
Reputation: 1469
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Ok.

So Mr. "I can teach rings around everybody because I HAVE A MASTER'S".

Construct, right now, a sample lesson plan on, Classical Conditioning let's say. In the FFT format recently adopted.
Post the Lesson Objective using the correct format.
Incorporate the SAT Word of the Day.
Infuse technology in the the lesson for each student. You're not in the lab by the way, nor can the kids use their phones.
Remember, at least 5 of the 37 kids have a 504 Educational Plan which you have to follow. Two more have IEPs and spend the rest of their day in Special Ed classes. You'll have to differentiate the lesson for them.
Use an in class demonstration.
Be sure to include not only guided practice but also independent practice.
Also remember closure. Your lesson must last the entire period, no letting the kids work on the homework the last 10 minutes.

It doesn't matter if you can process the living **** out of information, your job is to teach that information to the students.
Congratulations tough guy. Not only have I taught extensively in the classroom (including developmental students, ESL, and certainly students with accommodation plans) I've written curriculum. But one of my first teaching experiences was when I was in grad school. My training? "This is the textbook. This is the lab manual. You learn it then you teach it."

Since the technology has been around, any class I have taught had a companion website. This was done on various platforms. I've taught the same subject from the developmental level all they way to Honors/AP level, however you want to parse it. So don't even for a second attempt to pull my card on education. I have been evaluated by students, colleagues, and administrators in the field of education and my record is STERLING. So you can attempt to throw together what you think is educational jargon but I am every bit the veteran in the field of education that you are my friend. And yes, I have addressed my local school board and if I was so inclined to give my name (which I am not) you could have felt free to read the press clippings. But if you have any more "tests" you think you can give to me, hey, bring it on.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:16 PM
 
4,162 posts, read 4,105,320 times
Reputation: 5346
I'm confused - I thought we were discussing the School Board. The School board doesn't teach. It doesn't do the day to day administration. It sets Policy based on the desires of the community. If the community elects non college grads because they feel that those people bring the concerns that they feel strongly about then that is who should be there. I will say that politics in PG county seem at time to be a joke and the voters seem in many cases to be sheep being lead to the sheering but that represents a bigger potential problem than just the school board
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:17 PM
 
4,162 posts, read 4,105,320 times
Reputation: 5346
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
They have to be members of the MD Bar which means they've passed the Bar Exam. MD got rid of the allowance for non-JD holders being permitted to take the exam several years ago.
Okay I didn't know that was in the law. Is that also a requirement for Federal Judges or again just a 'tradition'
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