Cheap Trades Labour in Anne Arundel? (insurance, credit, how much)

[melb-to-md]

Hi all,

I'm looking at potentially doing up a house. A mate of mine in SF just goes to Home Depot, buys his gear then selects 5-10 of the "locals" looking to work for $10-$20/hr or so, depending on the job at hand. The painters are wearing white overalls etc. etc. He gets more work done in 3 months than I get done doing it my own in 5 years because in Australia tradies are anywhere from $100-$150/hr, there is no "sub-class" of resident, AND the nanny state laws require licensed trades (yes even painters).

Does this happen in Maryland/Anne Arundel? Or, are you limited to the certified and accredited local professionals.

Cheers,
melb-to-md

[goldenage1]

Originally Posted by melb-to-md

Does this happen in Maryland/Anne Arundel? Or, are you limited to the certified and accredited local professionals.

It depends on the type of work you want done. Finding casual laborers for short-term construction jobs happens all over Maryland. But offic1ally you need to have a permit for the work, have the work done by licensed people, have it inspected, etc. If your mate wants to sell the house later, he should go through channels.

If it is just painting or digging, you can get away with casual laborers. But these guys often don't understand much English, so you can't give complicated directions.

[jlawrence01]

Originally Posted by goldenage1

If it is just painting or digging, you can get away with casual laborers. But these guys often don't understand much English, so you can't give complicated directions.

But if you are digging, those casual workers had better be informed as to where the utility lines are located as the owner is liable for damaging utility lines.

Make sure that you use licensed plumbers and electricians as a lot of the "handymen" do more damage than good.

[Richard Martin]

Anne Arundel County will require a permit for virtually any work that is done. With the permit you'll need licensed plumbers, electricians and HVAC. You are allowed to do your own foundation, framing, siding, insulation, drywall and finish carpentry. An inspection is required for each step in the construction process. You may also have to provide multiple copies (8) of construction plans, drawings and the same from any subs. You may also have to provide site plans as well as an impervious surfaces site plan including elevations. If the property is within 1,000 feet of ANY water, a whole new set of requirements may apply. If you are adding a bathroom, it can really get expensive. AA Co takes their building permits very seriously and they take a dim view of cheaters. Welcome to the USA!

[melb-to-md]

Ha! Thanks for all that feedback. AACo sounds a lot like Australia! Looks like I'll have to do it "the right way".

[mapmd]

Originally Posted by goldenage1

It depends on the type of work you want done. Finding casual laborers for short-term construction jobs happens all over Maryland. But offic1ally you need to have a permit for the work, have the work done by licensed people, have it inspected, etc. If your mate wants to sell the house later, he should go through channels.

If it is just painting or digging, you can get away with casual laborers. But these guys often don't understand much English, so you can't give complicated directions.

I work in the home construction/remodeling business in one of the trades and the way it works is that you'll have a builder (who often shares work with an architect) who contracts with the property owner for a certain job. For smaller projects (like yours) the homeowner could simply contract out on their own.

If with a builder the builder will coordinate contractors for each trade: Plumbers, Electricians, Painters, Drywallers, Insullation, HVAC, etc. etc. Generally these will be with a licensed company run by a "master" in that trade. The master spot supervises the work, but generally they have many projects going on at once and as owners take care of billing and doing estimates to find new work which keeps the company (and the employees) busy.

Most of the people actually doing the work will consist of two-man crews. One will be a journeyman and the other will be an apprentice. Mind you in a lot of trades neither are official in Maryland, only the Master is an official title with a test and a license involved. My understanding is that MD is abnormal in this regard and that most states provision for apprentices and journeyman in most trades.

Generally a helper could make as low as $10/hr. with no experience. Someone with 1-2 years might be considered an "apprentice" and make $13-15/hr. An experienced "journeymen" might make $20-$30 depending on experience and how much they can command in the market in their trade. The master might charge $100/hr. (just for labor; materials not included) and generally this is the rate a company is going to pay for labor anyway. So you're still looking at paying a company $100/hr, but half of that will go to the guy who isn't working and just running the company and half will go to the guys doing the actual work.

I have no experience with unions, and almost everyone I interact with in the various trades are non-union. Custom home builders and remodlers probably do not work with union, that's more for companies contracting with government extracting what they can from taxpayers who can do little about it in this spendthrift state.

[mapmd]

Originally Posted by Richard Martin

Anne Arundel County will require a permit for virtually any work that is done. With the permit you'll need licensed plumbers, electricians and HVAC. You are allowed to do your own foundation, framing, siding, insulation, drywall and finish carpentry. An inspection is required for each step in the construction process. You may also have to provide multiple copies (8) of construction plans, drawings and the same from any subs. You may also have to provide site plans as well as an impervious surfaces site plan including elevations. If the property is within 1,000 feet of ANY water, a whole new set of requirements may apply. If you are adding a bathroom, it can really get expensive. AA Co takes their building permits very seriously and they take a dim view of cheaters. Welcome to the USA!

You can get work done without a permit, but your insurance company might not like it and could potentially deny claims using the lack of permitting as an excuse.

Generally you do not need plans except for things that are structural such as foundations and framing.

What you are paying for with a "permit" is really the inspection process. Not a bad thing to have in the long run, and it does help to ensure you, your buddies or especially your contractors are doing things right.

The worst thing you can ever do is hire an unlicensed hack who'll do a poor job, take the money and run, and then leave you to again pay someone else to undo those mistakes and then pay yet again to have it done correctly.

[Richard Martin]

Originally Posted by mapmd

You can get work done without a permit, but your insurance company might not like it and could potentially deny claims using the lack of permitting as an excuse.

Generally you do not need plans except for things that are structural such as foundations and framing.

Having lived and worked in AA Co for many decades, the county gets very upset if you do anything more than simple painting without a permit.

Here is the list directly from AA Co.

The projects covered are grouped into general categories:
Accessory buildings (including sheds)
Home improvement and repair projects
Piers, Bulkheads
Plumbing/Mechanical
Electrical
Appliance Installations
Appliance Repairs
Miscellaneous
Fences

These sections indicate what building permits and plans are required. The charts indicate the permits required if only the work listed is performed. Other permits may be required if additional work is done. A grading permit may also be required. Please contact the Permit Application Center if you are unsure if a permit is required.

Link to the AA Co website:Is A Building Permit Required?

Really, something as simple as a new stove or water heater requires a permit. They will fine you if they catch you doing work without a permit. Also, the misc category covers everything and anything. You work at your own peril without a permit.

[PylesFord]

Mr. Martin from a "former" AACO resident how about some pros/cons of living in North Carolina as opposed to Maryland???

[Richard Martin]

Originally Posted by PylesFord

Mr. Martin from a "former" AACO resident how about some pros/cons of living in North Carolina as opposed to Maryland???

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