Maryland a NORTHEASTERN state (Baltimore, Frederick: most dangerous, safest, design)

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

I have run into NC natives into their 60s who have accents that are thisclose to the Philadelphia/Baltimore accent. Most of them were also taught that NC is both MidAtlantic & Southern.

As to NYC, I don't consider it to be MidAtlantic. Just ask NYers, they'll tell you they aren't like anyplace else. Philadelphia is absolutely textbook MidAtlantic.

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The "Baltimore-like accent" has to be in urban areas among whites, right? I mean I am pretty familiar with the coastal NC dialect, the NC piedmont dialect is both one of the most unique and, to my ear, unintelligible dialects in America. I know it because I have family that moved down there. And the mountain people talk like mountain people.

Kurath used common lexical terms to find similarities between the Eastern Shore of MD and Coastal NC, but other than that, I can't recall any linguists finding similarities between the two states that lead to any meaningful linkage.

[Richard Martin]

Originally Posted by 80s_kid

Interesting. That's definitely where it will end for this Mid-Atlantic trait because you start seeing the Low Country influences picking up I would think.

Don't get me wrong, there is still plenty of the South to be heard here. A few native North Carolinians have so much accent that it's difficult to understand what they're saying at times. I have however, met quite a few natives that have no southern accent at all. I asked them what happened to their accent and they say they worked hard to get rid of it because of the stigma of being thought of as being uneducated or backward if you speak with a southern accent.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by Deluusions

I don't believe the whole state is Mid-Atlantic because of the upstate NY. The only Mid-Atlantic part of New York is NYC, Long Island, etc. This is based off culture, religion and demographics though not dialect

It is said that the mid atlantic is the transition between northeast and southeast. What is transitional about nyc's quintessential northeast culture??????

[Chevalier de Saint-George]

Originally Posted by Richard Martin

Don't get me wrong, there is still plenty of the South to be heard here. A few native North Carolinians have so much accent that it's difficult to understand what they're saying at times. I have however, met quite a few natives that have no southern accent at all. I asked them what happened to their accent and they say they worked hard to get rid of it because of the stigma of being thought of as being uneducated or backward if you speak with a southern accent.

Yeah, I got you...I understand.

[andrew_s]

Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool

It is said that the mid atlantic is the transition between northeast and southeast. What is transitional about nyc's quintessential northeast culture??????

and this is why I never refer to maryland as midatlantic with NY/NJ (mostly north) lumped in.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by 80s_kid

The accent thing is peculiar...wonder how that came to be. I agree that you can classify NC as both. I was always taught that MD/VA are quintessential Mid-Atlantic states (DC too). Philly as I see it is much closer to NYC than DC to me but anyway....what makes Philadelphia textbook Mid-Atlantic?

First, architecture. Second, in real life, the average Philadelphian practices many of the mannerisms that are identified as Southern, but also doesn't take crap from people, which is identified as northern. It's a blend. The people are a blend.

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

First, architecture. Second, in real life, the average Philadelphian practices many of the mannerisms that are identified as Southern, but also doesn't take crap from people, which is identified as northern. It's a blend. The people are a blend.

I was kinda surprised to see this when I was up in Philly three Saturdays ago. Some of them even had slight "Southernisms" in their accents as well, just like Bmore and DC locals. It was slight but it was pretty noticeable. I think you'll hear Southernisms one way or another throughout the Mid-Atlantic to as far north as South Jersey. It generally stops in Central Jersey because that's when you'll start hearing more NYC influences on the accents up there, and you'll be hard pressed to hear any Southernisms in the accents of New Yorkers.

And I definitely agree with the architecture. The architecture in DC for example is like an interesting blend between Northern stately elegance and Southern colorful quirkiness. You'll see this flamboyant architectural blend in Baltimore, Philadelphia, Richmond, Wilmington, Alexandria, Annapolis, Frederick (MD), etc.

[Deluusions]

Originally Posted by andrew_s

and this is why I never refer to maryland as midatlantic with NY/NJ (mostly north) lumped in.

You've never been to south jersey then. NJ is definitely apart of the Mid-Atlantic.

[andrew_s]

Originally Posted by Deluusions

You've never been to south jersey then. NJ is definitely apart of the Mid-Atlantic.

Definitely have and definitley have included it in mid atlantic as a transition area. But I still hesitate to do so. But I agree south NJ is very different then north NJ.

[EddieOlSkool]

Originally Posted by tcave360

I was kinda surprised to see this when I was up in Philly three Saturdays ago. Some of them even had slight "Southernisms" in their accents as well, just like Bmore and DC locals. It was slight but it was pretty noticeable. I think you'll hear Southernisms one way or another throughout the Mid-Atlantic to as far north as South Jersey. It generally stops in Central Jersey because that's when you'll start hearing more NYC influences on the accents up there, and you'll be hard pressed to hear any Southernisms in the accents of New Yorkers.

And I definitely agree with the architecture. The architecture in DC for example is like an interesting blend between Northern stately elegance and Southern colorful quirkiness. You'll see this flamboyant architectural blend in Baltimore, Philadelphia, Richmond, Wilmington, Alexandria, Annapolis, Frederick (MD), etc.

The fronted o and some of the short vowels that become long are audibly Southern in Philly.


It is kind of a perfect blend. Baltimore is further from the North linguistically than Philly. Philly still has NYisms in its dialect while Baltimore doesn't. In this way, Philly is a TRUE Mid-Atlantic dialect.

DC is actually within the Southern dialect family. Whatever Southernisms you don't hear in DC are dilutions, not Northeasternisms. In DC, people either sound Southern, General American, or Southern-lite. But NYisms were never part of DC's linguistics. Whatever made them a part of it are purely transplanted but even then, they aren't all that widespread. Certainly not enough for DC to be in the same linguistic category. Make no mistake about it; DC and Philly are not in the same dialect region.