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Meh, MD has the second-highest state income tax in the US ($40.16 per $1000 vs. CA's $29.09 per $1000.) As for sprawl, overall population density of MD is 5th in the nation (610.7/sq. mile), whereas CA is 11th (246.1/sq. mile.) I haven't lived in CA, and wouldn't care to, but that doesn't mean that MD is so much better. *shrug*
Rarely do I get to see such horrible attempts at utilizing statistics.
Maryland tax RATES are actually below the national average, topping out at just over 5%, but the vast vast vast majority of Marylanders pay 4.75% (Between 3k and 100k is a big bracket). People in Idaho and Iowa pay 6%. In Nebraska most people pay closer to 7%. Oregon's top rate is 9%....and these are rural conservative states.
But the amount collected per person is high because federal government workers and contractors have a high amount of income. That is the statistic you're seeing, but you completely misapplied it. Just another case of how public schools (as well as Fox; as well as MSNBC) have kept Americans ignorant of how to properly read or use statistics.
You're also way off base when it comes to sprawl. California is an enormous state, 3rd in the country and slightly larger than even Montana. Go to LA, San Diego or the Bay Area and tell me there isn't sprawl. Then go to Modoc or Inyo counties in California and you won't find a county in Maryland that has a population nearly as sparse. Parts of Wyoming and Nevada are comparable to several of California's counties.
LA county alone has 10 million people. That's a population larger than all but states states as well as the majority of countries in the world. Maryland doesn't even have 6 million people. Tell me where the sprawl is concentrated.
You can also look at places like Riverside or San Bernardino counties and you'll find that while they have decent sized populations, that population is concentrated in a comparatively small area (on their western edges). San Bernardino is 4½ times larger than Connecticut and about 16½ times larger than Rhode Island, but 95% of it is devoid of population. Your attempt at using population densities across entire or even counties would not give you an indication of sprawl. You have to look at concentrations.
Zoning plans, land use maps, and satellite imagery would be a far better ways of determining whether or not an area would be considered to contain urban sprawl.
Rarely do I get to see such horrible attempts at utilizing statistics.
Maryland tax RATES are actually below the national average, topping out at just over 5%, but the vast vast vast majority of Marylanders pay 4.75% (Between 3k and 100k is a big bracket). People in Idaho and Iowa pay 6%. In Nebraska most people pay closer to 7%. Oregon's top rate is 9%....and these are rural conservative states................
What's even more horrible is someone making a statement without realizing that while the State imposes an income tax of 4.75% (and I'll accept your number) that the Counties also impose an income tax (called the Piggyback Tax) of 50% (for most Counties, some are higher, some lower) on top of the State rate.
Rarely do I get to see such horrible attempts at utilizing statistics.
Maryland tax RATES are actually below the national average, topping out at just over 5%, but the vast vast vast majority of Marylanders pay 4.75% (Between 3k and 100k is a big bracket). People in Idaho and Iowa pay 6%. In Nebraska most people pay closer to 7%. Oregon's top rate is 9%....and these are rural conservative states.
But the amount collected per person is high because federal government workers and contractors have a high amount of income. That is the statistic you're seeing, but you completely misapplied it. Just another case of how public schools (as well as Fox; as well as MSNBC) have kept Americans ignorant of how to properly read or use statistics.
You're also way off base when it comes to sprawl. California is an enormous state, 3rd in the country and slightly larger than even Montana. Go to LA, San Diego or the Bay Area and tell me there isn't sprawl. Then go to Modoc or Inyo counties in California and you won't find a county in Maryland that has a population nearly as sparse. Parts of Wyoming and Nevada are comparable to several of California's counties.
LA county alone has 10 million people. That's a population larger than all but states states as well as the majority of countries in the world. Maryland doesn't even have 6 million people. Tell me where the sprawl is concentrated.
You can also look at places like Riverside or San Bernardino counties and you'll find that while they have decent sized populations, that population is concentrated in a comparatively small area (on their western edges). San Bernardino is 4½ times larger than Connecticut and about 16½ times larger than Rhode Island, but 95% of it is devoid of population. Your attempt at using population densities across entire or even counties would not give you an indication of sprawl. You have to look at concentrations.
Zoning plans, land use maps, and satellite imagery would be a far better ways of determining whether or not an area would be considered to contain urban sprawl.
Thank you. I usually try to avoid debates and getting off topic, but the post was so misinformed that I couldn't leave it out on the web for some unknowing reader to mistakenly take as truth.
I will never say that MD is perfect (it's not, or I wouldn't have moved), but if your gripes with MD aren't backed by statistics (mine is the weather, and that is backed by stats), I take issue with flat out wrong information and twisted numbers in an attempt to back wrong information. Like I said, anyone making those comments about sprawl, driving, and taxes in MD have probably never stepped foot in the likes of CA (because those are the things I came to appreciate about MD while living in CA three times). That is all.
Now, if one were to say that MD has sprawl, bad drivers, and high taxes *in comparison to a state that does not*, that, I can accept. But to say MD is horrible in those areas with no base for comparison, well, we've got it good compared to other places. And it's not just CA. Ever seen the sprawl in Dallas? No area of MD makes even one "worst sprawl" list. I dare any reader on C-D to locate one.
When the unending sprawl seems perfectly normal, and when seeing a snake, deer, or some other form of similar wildlife is a rarity.
I know of not just snakes, but snake infestations in places as developed as Essex and Nottingham.
My home in Perry Hall has chipmunks, fox, deer, bunnies, frogs of all sizes, etc. I often see deer hanging out near the 695 clover leaf next to Towson Town Center. I know, because I slow down since I see so many at that spot, in addition next to my car parked in front of my home (it's a nice morning ritual, saying hi to the deer in the morning). If one doesn't see enough animals, they're either in Balto. City proper or not looking too hard.
What's even more horrible is someone making a statement without realizing that while the State imposes an income tax of 4.75% (and I'll accept your number) that the Counties also impose an income tax (called the Piggyback Tax) of 50% (for most Counties, some are higher, some lower) on top of the State rate.
So 4.75%+2.375% = 7.125%.
Not all counties in Maryland do, and not all of them have the same income thresholds. I believe the county-level income tax is higher in a lot of the midwest too. How people in the midwest tolerate this I do not know.
Some places (Des Moines, Minneapolis, for examples) have very high taxes which makes a liberal east coast state like Maryland seem like a tax haven by comparisson. On the other hand you have states like South Dakota which no not have an income tax at the state level and where the local burden is also quite low.
Much of the south has a low tax burden. Texas has high property tax rates, but it's a wash since prices and assessments are low, and this is offset by not having a state income tax. One really has to do their research if taxation is important to their way of life and they will be moving with that as a consideration.
Still, there is no excuse for no understanding the difference between raw amounts and rates. A lot of Americans seem to have trouble with these things, and it's an increasing trend. I don't even claim to be great at math, but there seems to be a troubling deficiency for many. I'm not surprised to hear about the amount of credit card debt people choose to have as well as the lack of savings people choose not to have.
You'd be surprised how few people understand percentage changes (examples: going from 4 to 5 is a 25% increase, but going from 5 to 4 is a 20% decrease; going from 5 to 20 is a 200% increase, but going from 20 to 5 is a 75% decrease) let along rate changes (like how slowing down the rate of increase is not a decrease, it's still an increase, just less of one; politicians like to use this one to claim "funding cuts" even when the amount is still increasing, just at less of a rate than before).
Quote:
Ever seen the sprawl in Dallas? No area of MD makes even one "worst sprawl" list. I dare any reader on C-D to locate one.
I have. Dallas is huge. Houston is building a 3rd beltway ring. Oklahoma city and Indianapolis for example have a ton of low density sprawl since they are not constrained by geography in any direction.
Last edited by InchingWest; 12-06-2015 at 10:29 AM..
Not all counties in Maryland do, and not all of them have the same income thresholds. I believe the county-level income tax is higher in a lot of the midwest too. How people in the midwest tolerate this I do not know.
Some places (Des Moines for example) have very high property taxes which makes a liberal east coast state like Maryland seem like a tax haven by comparisson. On the other hand you have states like South Dakota which no not have an income tax at the state level and where the local burden is also quite low.
Much of the south has a low tax burden. Texas has high property tax rates, but it's a wash since prices and assessments are low, and this is offset by not having a state income tax. One really has to do their research if taxation is important to their way of life and they will be moving with that as a consideration.
Still, there is no excuse for no understanding the difference between raw amounts and rates. A lot of Americans seem to have trouble with these things, and it's an increasing trend. I don't even claim to be great at math, but there seems to be a troubling deficiency for many. I'm not surprised to hear about the amount of credit card debt people choose to have as well as the lack of savings people choose not to have.
You'd be surprised how few people understand percentage changes (examples: going from 4 to 5 is a 25% increase, but going from 5 to 4 is a 20% decrease; going from 5 to 20 is a 200% increase, but going from 20 to 5 is a 75% decrease) let along rate changes (like how giving federal workers a COL adjustment of 3% as opposed to 5% is not a pay cut!!!, they're still getting 3% extra).
Oh for Christ's sake, you don't know what you're talking about. Maryland Counties do not have different income thresholds for the piggyback income tax, nor do some have it and some not. Every single County has the Piggyback Income Tax. Every single one.
As a note, Mrs. NBP's and my combined State/County income tax rate is/was (I retired in June so I don't know what it will be this year) 7.875%. We are/were teachers, two of former Governor O'Malley's "undeserving rich who deserve higher tax rates".
Last edited by North Beach Person; 12-06-2015 at 10:36 AM..
Location: Stuck on the East Coast, hoping to head West
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Maryland's tax climate is not, by any argument, favorable. I think it currently ranks 45th for individual taxes (compare that to Delaware's 14th ranking) and doesn't fare well on the property tax ranking, either. There's more bad news all outlined here Testimony: Maryland's Tax Climate | Tax Foundation
Back to the op: you know you're from MD when you know the oyster + "r"ules,when your life centers around the Bay. When you know the BEST time to get crabs is actually in fall. I know I'm gonna get in trouble for saying this, but: JO over Old Bay. Yup.
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