why is Maryland so Appalachian in culture? (Baltimore, Frederick: job market, live in)

[ialmostforgot]

Originally Posted by thealfa

You're in Cumberland, so I would assume the Appalachian culture is closer to home?

Central MD I would think is NOT inhabited by transplants? Are you saying Cumberland is progressive? Gimme a break.

Something about Maryland culture is subtlety Appalachian.

Central Maryland definitely is a mainly transplant region. Unless you think that Frederick or Cecil Counties are in central MD.

Most of Maryland, as others have already said, is not Appalachian.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by papichulo2

wow this post is another interesting one! i wish i could climb the mountains of maryland and go hiking and scuba diving it sounds really fun! Where in maryland can this happen? not PG anne arundel or montgomery i know that

Sugar Loaf Mtn. is considered the closest mountain to D.C. It is a monadnock, or isolated mountain. My recommendation is to to avoid it. Too many people on the trails, and you are still in the piedmont, just a bit higher.

Frederick County has some nice mountain hiking. The "Three G" parks, Gathland, Greenbriar and Gambrill are all solid. Catoctin Park and Cunningham Falls are great choices too. Cunningham Falls tends to get crowded though.

If you are feeling like taking a bigger adventure. Allegany County has Rocky Gap, with many nice trails. Green Ridge has a good rep. too, but places I hike there aren't trails to anyone by me and the deer, so I don't know much about the public areas. Driving to the top of Dan's Mtn. gives you a great view of 4 states on a clear day, just make sure your directions go to the OVERLOOK not the STATE PARK. Two different roads lead you there.

Garrett County's Swallow Falls are the cream of the crop. The forest is old growth Hemlock/White Pine/Black Cherry with cool streams and waterfalls. It's a special experience, even for someone like me that is in the woods pretty frequently.

[marlinfshr]

How can PG and Anne Arundel (or any of those other counties as well) be considered Appalachian? One is pretty urban and the other is pretty much defined by the Chesapeake. (have lived in both in another life) Um, last I checked, the Appalachians were a couple hours west, northwest of either of those. Have they moved since I crossed that bridge ?

[Steelers10]

To be sure, a significant number of Southern Appalachian whites migrated to Baltimore after the Civil War to work in various mills and factories. It is not uncommon for populations cut off from their cultural hearth to retain many facets of their "old traditions". I would also assume that much of this working-class white Baltimore population decanted to surrounding counties after the 1950s during the era of "white flight".

Hampden, Baltimore

BALTIMORE CITY'S PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE

Forgotten Gardens: From Ashe County, North Carolina to Baltimore's 'hillbilly ghettos,'...


It is doubtful that many whites maintain "pure" Appalachian culture in Baltimore city and the suburban counties of Baltimore, Howard, Carroll, etc. but I wouldn't automatically assume that all "hardscrabble" rural white culture east of Sideling Hill is Piedmont or Watermen culture. Also due to to being borne out of isolation "Guinea men" culture and Appalachian culture have many similarities that could lead to some confusion to the untrained eye or ear:

Life in Mathews

Appalachian Magazine: Accent of Virginia Islanders Offers Glimpse of Founding Fathers’ Dialect

[thealfa]

I sense Appalachian culture in Pigtown and Morrell Park.

Originally Posted by Steelers10

To be sure, a significant number of Southern Appalachian whites migrated to Baltimore after the Civil War to work in various mills and factories. It is not uncommon for populations cut off from their cultural hearth to retain many facets of their "old traditions". I would also assume that much of this working-class white Baltimore population decanted to surrounding counties after the 1950s during the era of "white flight".

Hampden, Baltimore

BALTIMORE CITY'S PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE

Forgotten Gardens: From Ashe County, North Carolina to Baltimore's 'hillbilly ghettos,'...


It is doubtful that many whites maintain "pure" Appalachian culture in Baltimore city and the suburban counties of Baltimore, Howard, Carroll, etc. but I wouldn't automatically assume that all "hardscrabble" rural white culture east of Sideling Hill is Piedmont or Watermen culture. Also due to to being borne out of isolation "Guinea men" culture and Appalachian culture have many similarities that could lead to some confusion to the untrained eye or ear:

Life in Mathews

Appalachian Magazine: Accent of Virginia Islanders Offers Glimpse of Founding Fathers’ Dialect

[thealfa]

when you say vacant buildings, Appalachia has these? So it's like Baltimore city but in an Appalachian setting? Is the lower shore, in Eastern Shore? Or you meant Southern MD?

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Yup, you don't have to even leave the state. Come up and spend a day and a night in Cumberland to get the small city urban Appalachian experience. Plan a drive down the Rt. 36 mine heritage route through the George's Creek valley, catch a bite to eat, do some shopping........if you can find a commercial business that is still in operation, then head up through the Savage River Forest to Oakland to see wild, sparcely populated Appalachia, and the county seat of Garrett County. It will be a mix of tourists visiting from the Lake, and the locals.

I suspect you will be rather shocked by what you see. At minimum, there won't be places in PG, Montgomery, Howard, or Anne Arundel County that will come even close to the amount of vacant buildings, de-populated towns, and lack of in-migration over the last 60 years. George's Creek especially will be informative about the major difference between Appalachia and the rest of the state. I guess only the lower shore and parts of Baltimore City are comparable for pure shock value.

[thealfa]

when you say vacant buildings, Appalachia has these? So it's like Baltimore city but in an Appalachian setting? Is the lower shore, in Eastern Shore? Or you meant Southern MD?

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Yup, you don't have to even leave the state. Come up and spend a day and a night in Cumberland to get the small city urban Appalachian experience. Plan a drive down the Rt. 36 mine heritage route through the George's Creek valley, catch a bite to eat, do some shopping........if you can find a commercial business that is still in operation, then head up through the Savage River Forest to Oakland to see wild, sparcely populated Appalachia, and the county seat of Garrett County. It will be a mix of tourists visiting from the Lake, and the locals.

I suspect you will be rather shocked by what you see. At minimum, there won't be places in PG, Montgomery, Howard, or Anne Arundel County that will come even close to the amount of vacant buildings, de-populated towns, and lack of in-migration over the last 60 years. George's Creek especially will be informative about the major difference between Appalachia and the rest of the state. I guess only the lower shore and parts of Baltimore City are comparable for pure shock value.

[tallydude02]

There was also a migration from the eastern Pennsylvania coal fields to Baltimore starting in the 1940's. When coal mining communities in eastern PA lost population due to job loss, many of the coal miners moved to Baltimore to work in the factories along with their southern brethren and settled in many of the same areas. I guess they would be considered as Northern Appalachians. But the prevailing culture in Baltimore is not southern or Appalachian.

[thealfa]

Most Appalachians in Baltimore these days tend to pant sag.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by thealfa

when you say vacant buildings, Appalachia has these? So it's like Baltimore city but in an Appalachian setting? Is the lower shore, in Eastern Shore? Or you meant Southern MD?

Lower Shore always refers to the Lower Eastern Shore. Southern Maryland is Southern Maryland.

Pittsburgh is closer in geography, architecture, demographics, and dialect to Cumberland than Baltimore is, and a better comp.. My point is that there are certain character traits and visual images you will find in nearly all economically struggling areas: people with little hope for self-improvement, vacant buildings, lack of commercial investment, etc. In Maryland, these types of places are the exception, while the "progressive" counties you mention have the opposite problem: deciding the best ways for the communities to grow and share prosperity.

I mentioned the "shock" value of seeing the real Appalachia based on what you seem to think it is. If you aren't aware Appalachia is struggling economically as a region, it is a possible reason you are mistaking the generalized rural Maryland culture in economically well off areas for specific Appalachian culture.

You may be able to find a few people at say, ATK, FSU, or doctors at the hospital that only live in Western Maryland (Garrett and Allegany) because of a job opportunity. For the 99% of the rest of us, we live here in spite of the depressed job market or because we don't have the skills/motivation/money to move elsewhere. We are unlike "progressive" MD counties on the first point; we would be so lucky that great jobs would be attracting people here. On this second point, you will again find commonalities with other economically struggling areas.

Lastly, Baltimore had a large wave of Appalachian immigrants. I think it's arguable exactly how much of the culture is still there. Again, it is hard to define the Appalachian identity outside of the knowing the mountains themselves, and within a generation or two, that knowledge is lost. This isn't a hard and fast position though. I'm not an expert on Baltimore or what happens to Appalachian immigrants culturally after they move to large urban areas outside of the mountains. I know there are studies on "urban Appalachians." out there, but it's just a bit outside my wheelhouse.