2018 - Ravens/Redskins - Where is the dividing line? (Baltimore: lawsuits, stats)

[DaveinMtAiry]

Originally Posted by Moth

I never understood the hostility either. I realize EBW spoke of moving the Orioles to DC, but that was in response to low attendance, not some grass roots campaign in DC to take their team (ours too) away. Nobody in DC was clamoring to move the Os to RFK. And EBW never did.

And I never heard anyone in DC disparage Baltimore. We had our own issues (Barry, crime, etc) and were not about to dump on Charm City. Most people in DC like going to Baltimore.

Don't jump ship for the Ravens. I root for the Nats but find it impossible to jettison the Orioles. The result is a textbook example of bipolar, divided loyalty that would shock an Italian Prime Minister.

Yeah I talked to a Baltimore guy who said the resentment came from being forced fed the Redskins, they were always on TV for obvious reason. I asked him how that was any different than the O's being on TV constantly in Washington and he had no answer. It's the whole Baltimore hates Washington thing and it's annoying.


Disgusted with Dan Snyder I really tried to latch on to the Ravens. It started last year and this season I was openly rooting for them and watching them instead of the Skins. But I just couldn't continue to do it. All week long I heard their cocky fans saying Lamar Jackson was the man. I argued all week that a QB needs to be able to execute the forward pass for any lasting success. When the Charges loaded the box and took away the run because they had zero respect for Jackson's passing ability it was tough to watch, they have no chance hitching their wagon to a QB like that IMO.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry

Yeah I talked to a Baltimore guy who said the resentment came from being forced fed the Redskins, they were always on TV for obvious reason. I asked him how that was any different than the O's being on TV constantly in Washington and he had no answer. It's the whole Baltimore hates Washington thing and it's annoying.


Disgusted with Dan Snyder I really tried to latch on to the Ravens. It started last year and this season I was openly rooting for them and watching them instead of the Skins. But I just couldn't continue to do it. All week long I heard their cocky fans saying Lamar Jackson was the man. I argued all week that a QB needs to be able to execute the forward pass for any lasting success. When the Charges loaded the box and took away the run because they had zero respect for Jackson's passing ability it was tough to watch, they have no chance hitching their wagon to a QB like that IMO.

Lol, rookie QB, literally turned 22 the week of his first playoff game. It was expected he would really struggle the first time he had to play from behind..........and he did.

Maybe he figures out the forward pass enough to be a long term solution, maybe he doesn't. If he becomes league average in terms of accuracy and reading defense, we have a Pro-Bowler on our hands because of his elite level speed.

Sorry to hear you backslid back into a bad relationship with Danny Boy and the Skins. Keep trying. Escaping bad, one-sided relationships is really hard. It took me years......

[MidValleyDad]

Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry

Yeah I talked to a Baltimore guy who said the resentment came from being forced fed the Redskins, they were always on TV for obvious reason. I asked him how that was any different than the O's being on TV constantly in Washington and he had no answer. It's the whole Baltimore hates Washington thing and it's annoying.

I fully disagreed with the shyster labor lawyer who owns the Orioles getting a peice of the media pie of the Nationals, especially how he held up the approval of placing a team there until he got his kickback.


There has always been a difference between the two markets, especially in sports. The owners have done everything they can to separate the two markets until they have a team in their sport leave. Then they feel that they own both markets.


I will say Redskin fans were very hard to take during the Joe Gibbs glory years.

[Moth]

Originally Posted by MidValleyDad

I fully disagreed with the shyster labor lawyer who owns the Orioles getting a peice of the media pie of the Nationals, especially how he held up the approval of placing a team there until he got his kickback.


There has always been a difference between the two markets, especially in sports. The owners have done everything they can to separate the two markets until they have a team in their sport leave. Then they feel that they own both markets.


I will say Redskin fans were very hard to take during the Joe Gibbs glory years.

Might that have something to do with the Colts leaving in the dead of the night just as the Redskins' era of glory was commencing?

Otherwise, I don't recall us doing anything much different than anyone else who has a consistent winner.

In any case, you now have your revenge.

[MidValleyDad]

Originally Posted by Moth

Might that have something to do with the Colts leaving in the dead of the night just as the Redskins' era of glory was commencing?

Otherwise, I don't recall us doing anything much different than anyone else who has a consistent winner.

In any case, you now have your revenge.

Yea, the attitude of some Skins fan when theColts left didn't help.

And remember the Bullets had left Baltimore to 'become a regional team' (They were supposed to play some oof their games in Baltimore)


But not much revenge this year!

[Moth]

Originally Posted by MidValleyDad

Yea, the attitude of some Skins fan when theColts left didn't help.

And remember the Bullets had left Baltimore to 'become a regional team' (They were supposed to play some oof their games in Baltimore)


But not much revenge this year!

Regional meant being between Baltimore and Washington (Landover) and hopefully appealing to both.


As I recall, most Skins fans, myself included, were horrified at how the Colts left Baltimore.

[DaveinMtAiry]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Lol, rookie QB, literally turned 22 the week of his first playoff game. It was expected he would really struggle the first time he had to play from behind..........and he did.

Maybe he figures out the forward pass enough to be a long term solution, maybe he doesn't. If he becomes league average in terms of accuracy and reading defense, we have a Pro-Bowler on our hands because of his elite level speed.

Sorry to hear you backslid back into a bad relationship with Danny Boy and the Skins. Keep trying. Escaping bad, one-sided relationships is really hard. It took me years......

Yeah I understand Lamar is very young. But we have seen all year his inability to read a defense and throw an accurate pass on time. Will he develop this? That's really hard to assume that he will, has anyone gone from this bad to good as a passer?



Maybe it's the RGIII experience that still leaves a mark. But it wasn't only him, it was Michael Vick and virtually every other run first QB who are all very exciting to watch but when the dust settles in January they are never anywhere to be found. Instead we see pocket passers nearly every season still playing this time of year.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry

Yeah I understand Lamar is very young. But we have seen all year his inability to read a defense and throw an accurate pass on time. Will he develop this? That's really hard to assume that he will, has anyone gone from this bad to good as a passer?



Maybe it's the RGIII experience that still leaves a mark. But it wasn't only him, it was Michael Vick and virtually every other run first QB who are all very exciting to watch but when the dust settles in January they are never anywhere to be found. Instead we see pocket passers nearly every season still playing this time of year.

Jeff Goff. Metrics and pundits after his rookie year said "certain to bust." Two years later he is a Pro-Bowler on a 13-3 team.

Trubinski in Chicago was hopeless as a pocket passer last year. Big improvement this year, 12-4 team, nearly a game winning drive yesterday.


I doubt Jackson ever throws as well as Flacco, let alone Brady, but he doesn't have to. Again, "league average" means Pro-Bowl. Below "league average" still likely means playoff caliber QB because of his legs. His speed is elite level for any NFL position, virtually unseen in a QB (Vick is the only comp. I can think of.......and even then I think Jackson may accelerate faster.)

If you ask me, ball security is a bigger red flag than his pocket passing skills as a 22 year old rookie. Even if he is twice as good as hanging on to the ball next year........it still won't be enough. We got very lucky with his fumbles this year. Statistically speaking, he should have had more turnovers.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Jeff Goff. Metrics and pundits after his rookie year said "certain to bust." Two years later he is a Pro-Bowler on a 13-3 team.

Trubinski in Chicago was hopeless as a pocket passer last year. Big improvement this year, 12-4 team, nearly a game winning drive yesterday.


I doubt Jackson ever throws as well as Flacco, let alone Brady, but he doesn't have to. Again, "league average" means Pro-Bowl. Below "league average" still likely means playoff caliber QB because of his legs. His speed is elite level for any NFL position, virtually unseen in a QB (Vick is the only comp. I can think of.......and even then I think Jackson may accelerate faster.)

If you ask me, ball security is a bigger red flag than his pocket passing skills as a 22 year old rookie. Even if he is twice as good as hanging on to the ball next year........it still won't be enough. We got very lucky with his fumbles this year. Statistically speaking, he should have had more turnovers.

Jared Goff, my mistake. I went to college with a kid named Jeff Goff.

Here are articles from the wayback machine.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...in-2017#slide3

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/5/31/1...ure-draft-bust

NFL's Best QB Situations 2017 - Goal Line Stand - Rotoworld.com

The kid was written off after starting for 1/2 a horrific rookie year. I am nothing but bullish that Jackson can build on his amazing 1/2 rookie year. No guarantees for Jackson, of course.............but the Ravens had 5 rookies as starters or near starters of offense this year: Jackson, Edwards, H. Hurst, Andrews, Brown Jr. I like all those guys as starters moving forward, and love them as rookies on cheap contracts. The defense was Top 3, and with the ability to move on from Flacco's salary, we FINALLY will have the cap space to keep some of our young talent on 2nd contracts.

Ravens are trending up, and I am really excited about the future.

[DaveinMtAiry]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Jeff Goff. Metrics and pundits after his rookie year said "certain to bust." Two years later he is a Pro-Bowler on a 13-3 team.

Trubinski in Chicago was hopeless as a pocket passer last year. Big improvement this year, 12-4 team, nearly a game winning drive yesterday.


I doubt Jackson ever throws as well as Flacco, let alone Brady, but he doesn't have to. Again, "league average" means Pro-Bowl. Below "league average" still likely means playoff caliber QB because of his legs. His speed is elite level for any NFL position, virtually unseen in a QB (Vick is the only comp. I can think of.......and even then I think Jackson may accelerate faster.)

If you ask me, ball security is a bigger red flag than his pocket passing skills as a 22 year old rookie. Even if he is twice as good as hanging on to the ball next year........it still won't be enough. We got very lucky with his fumbles this year. Statistically speaking, he should have had more turnovers.

Yes but Goff and Trubinski were never run first QBs, they have been pocket passers throughout and just needed to learn the NFL game. Big difference. Yes the fumbling right now is a bigger issue but that's something that can be corrected. Mark Rypien once had a crazy stat when he was sacked 11 times and fumbled on 9 of them. That was corrected. The ability to hit a wide receiver in stride into tight coverage is a skill that is not often learned at the NFL level, you either have that skill or you don't. .