New Bay Bridge Proposals (Annapolis, Ocean City: vs, assess, rail)

[MidValleyDad]

Originally Posted by The Very Man Himself

Now that the tolls are automated it can't be too difficult to count the vehicles using the BB that are registered to Southern Md zips. Do that for a week four times a year, and you can get a reliable estimate of traffic to see whether a bridge or ferry service in S.Md would make more sense. Washington State has an extensive ferry service in Puget Sound they might have some old rust buckets going cheap.....

Maryland hasn't had a ferry system for over 60 years. There is no infrastructure to support it. Can't see it happening

[G1..]

Originally Posted by The Very Man Himself

Now that the tolls are automated it can't be too difficult to count the vehicles using the BB that are registered to Southern Md zips. Do that for a week four times a year, and you can get a reliable estimate of traffic to see whether a bridge or ferry service in S.Md would make more sense. Washington State has an extensive ferry service in Puget Sound they might have some old rust buckets going cheap.....

LOL, you just refuse to understand. Southern Maryland meaning Calvert, Charles and St. Mary's counties don't want it and will not approve it.As has been the case for at least 20 years

[The Very Man Himself]

Originally Posted by MidValleyDad

Maryland hasn't had a ferry system for over 60 years. There is no infrastructure to support it. Can't see it happening

Ferry infrastructure would cost way less than a bridge, and could be abandoned if not meeting targets. Solomon's to wherever in less than thirty minutes with two boats departing hourly during daylight would not break the bank.

[The Very Man Himself]

Originally Posted by G1..

LOL, you just refuse to understand. Southern Maryland meaning Calvert, Charles and St. Mary's counties don't want it and will not approve it.As has been the case for at least 20 years

Won't approve what? A bridge, a ferry, or both?

Oops!
https://www.city-data.com/forum/60753465-post121.html

[G1..]

Originally Posted by The Very Man Himself

Won't approve what? A bridge, a ferry, or both?

Oops!
https://www.city-data.com/forum/60753465-post121.html

WOW, and you expect to be taken seriously?

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by The Very Man Himself

Ferry infrastructure would cost way less than a bridge, and could be abandoned if not meeting targets. Solomon's to wherever in less than thirty minutes with two boats departing hourly during daylight would not break the bank.

The problem with a ferry, and there is no viable shoreline in Solomon's to dock one, is that every, single study for one comes up with a one way charge of around $85/vehicle in order to even approach break even. Part of that number is the fact that travel to the Shore/Ocean City is primarily seasonal, unlike Puget Sound, which was mentioned as an example, where the users are daily commuters.

The same for a bridge from Calvert. While this side has an embarkation point the Eastern Shore doesn't, all the land Louis Goldstein bought back in the 1950s to sell for a second bridge site is now under water.

Plus, and this is what's ignored-the possible sites on either side have no infrastructure to support a new bridge. Yes, it could be built but that infrastructure would cost more than the bridge itself. Not to mention that if the process would start today that it would take, at the most optimistic, a minimum of twenty years to go through the environmental reviews required.

Contrast that to the current site in Anne Arundel, the infrastructure is already there.

[The Very Man Himself]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

The problem with a ferry, and there is no viable shoreline in Solomon's to dock one, is that every, single study for one comes up with a one way charge of around $85/vehicle in order to even approach break even. Part of that number is the fact that travel to the Shore/Ocean City is primarily seasonal, unlike Puget Sound, which was mentioned as an example, where the users are daily commuters.

The same for a bridge from Calvert. While this side has an embarkation point the Eastern Shore doesn't, all the land Louis Goldstein bought back in the 1950s to sell for a second bridge site is now under water.

Plus, and this is what's ignored-the possible sites on either side have no infrastructure to support a new bridge. Yes, it could be built but that infrastructure would cost more than the bridge itself. Not to mention that if the process would start today that it would take, at the most optimistic, a minimum of twenty years to go through the environmental reviews required.

Contrast that to the current site in Anne Arundel, the infrastructure is already there.

I agree that a bridge is too expensive, and maybe a ferry also. I was just noodling the possibilities. At least a ferry has much lower start up costs, and the operating*expenses can be adjusted.

Earlier I suggested a hovercraft service, but no-one responded. Close to zero infrastructure needed. I think that's the best option. Fast and versatile, if a little temperamental. Just build a ramp, and RoRo.

I took it several times between Dover and Calais. The Chunnel put them out of biz. They could accommodate cars but not trucks. It's old tech, but no older than a ferry. Seems to me ideally suited for the terrain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hovercraft#:~:text=World's%20Largest%20Civil%20Hov ercraft%20%E2%80%93%20The,maximum%20displacement%2 0of%20535%20tons.

[MidValleyDad]

Originally Posted by The Very Man Himself

I agree that a bridge is too expensive, and maybe a ferry also. I was just noodling the possibilities. At least a ferry has much lower start up costs, and the operating*expenses can be adjusted.

Earlier I suggested a hovercraft service, but no-one responded. Close to zero infrastructure needed. I think that's the best option. Fast and versatile, if a little temperamental. Just build a ramp, and RoRo.

I took it several times between Dover and Calais. The Chunnel put them out of biz. They could accommodate cars but not trucks. It's old tech, but no older than a ferry. Seems to me ideally suited for the terrain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoverc...%20535%20tons.

Ferry operating costs cannot be adjusted much. Hulls, safety equipment need to be bought for peak usage. You need stability for crews, especially watchstanders and technical staff. that means paying them something even when they are not running full schedules.


Find me a hovercraft that could be used. The only designs I know of are the military ones like LCACs which won't meet civilian safety standards let alone customer expectations. The cost and time to design and build a fleet would be enormous. Then there are the environmental impacts. You can't just build a ramp. You have to fight all the battles a bridge abutment would have - wetlands, Corps of Engineers, and the dreaded NIMBY. On top of that the noise issue would add another complexity. Not going to happen.

[The Very Man Himself]

Originally Posted by MidValleyDad

Ferry operating costs cannot be adjusted much. Hulls, safety equipment need to be bought for peak usage. You need stability for crews, especially watchstanders and technical staff. that means paying them something even when they are not running full schedules.


Find me a hovercraft that could be used. The only designs I know of are the military ones like LCACs which won't meet civilian safety standards let alone customer expectations. The cost and time to design and build a fleet would be enormous. Then there are the environmental impacts. You can't just build a ramp. You have to fight all the battles a bridge abutment would have - wetlands, Corps of Engineers, and the dreaded NIMBY. On top of that the noise issue would add another complexity. Not going to happen.

There are lots of civilian designs. You probably wouldn't need anything as big as this, which appears to be lying up in Ontario......... maybe going cheap. Crossing the bay is a lot easier than crossing the channel.
How far is the opposite shore from Solomon's 6-7 miles? 15 minutes by hovercraft? One vessel, two crossings per hour.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR.N4

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by The Very Man Himself

There are lots of civilian designs. You probably wouldn't need anything as big as this, which appears to be lying up in Ontario......... maybe going cheap. Crossing the bay is a lot easier than crossing the channel.
How far is the opposite shore from Solomon's 6-7 miles? 15 minutes by hovercraft? One vessel, two crossings per hour.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR.N4

To handle the projected traffic you'd need a fleet the size of the US Navy's in WW II (just under 6800 boats of all types) . A couple boats holding 40 cars doesn't even rise to rounding error.

Keep in mind that a typical summer weekend on Ocean City (that's not counting the Delaware beaches) usually sees something north of 300,000 people.