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No, now it's your turn to try to prove MD is Southern.
For example, in what Southern city could you find an ethnic presence like Baltimore's?
Probably none, but if there is such a city, let's hear about it. And you certainly can't name
a Southern state that votes the way MD does.
Thanks for sharing. Same to you.
Hey, first of all, thanks for being polite.
So if you were at some faraway airport or hotel, and ran into someone from Garrett County,
you'd find a lot to talk about... but if they were from the Eastern Shore, probably not?
Yes, I lived in the urban / suburban core of MD, where most of the population is.
And I had a friend from Dorchester County, so we'd go over there now and then...
obviously, that's a very different kind of place. I didn't spend much time in Western or
Southern MD, so haven't got any personal impressions to go by.
It sounds like the point you're making is that the way people live doesn't necessarily correspond to state lines. That was the same thesis the author Joel Garreau made when he wrote "The Nine Nations of North America." He assigned a tiny slice of S MD to "Dixie," and the rest of the state to "the Foundry" (which included WV, PA, NJ, NY, but also e.g. Ohio and Michigan.) Do you agree with that?
I still think that if we must assign states in their entirety to categories, MD belongs to the Northeast, not the South. I'm still waiting for even a moderately-persuasive case to the contrary. Someone mentioned the structure of local government (and that was interesting), but I don't think it weighs more heavily than the state's voting behavior.
But thanks for reminding us that there can be big differences within a state, including a small state.
Rural vs urban is a major difference.
Yes, a person from Garrett County and I would have a nearly instant connection. We would probably know some of the same people and if not at least we would be familiar with the same places. We would also use more or less the same vocabulary in understanding the state: Western Maryland vs. Downstate. With everything east of Allegany County being "downstate" and outside of our region.
A person from the Eastern Shore and myself may find common cause in being from rural areas in a state dominated by our urban regions, but otherwise our daily realities and social circles would be much different. I don't relate to any place flat and swampy at all, completely out of my element there, and overall feel somewhere between "lost" and "exposed" without having visual geographic landmarks around me.
I would place most of the Eastern Shore and the remaining rural parts of Southern Maryland as "The South" or whatever term you prefer. Western Maryland is Appalachian in character. The other MD counties that touch the M-D line are most like PA to the north, but with more suburban/exurban places (especially Baltimore County). Baltimore City and the counties around Washington D.C. are "East Coast Megalopolis" these days. There is a core MD feel around Annapolis, so it is not a easy place to reconcile with the explosive growth around it.
In conclusion, MD is an example of why I don't think we should assign states to any one region unless it is for statistical or government purposes. If this had to be done to MD, I would say "Mid-Atlantic" is the best label. If you include MD in the Northeast, the region becomes little more than a collection of big cities along I-95 + rural stuff. While that modern transportation connection is important, it isn't much of a cultural corridor for anything but chain restaurants, spec. housing, and transplant culture, IMO.
No, now it's your turn to try to prove MD is Southern.
For example, in what Southern city could you find an ethnic presence like Baltimore's?
Probably none, but if there is such a city, let's hear about it. And you certainly can't name
a Southern state that votes the way MD does.
Nice try.....voting Democratic doesn't cut it. I'm still waiting......
The Greek community in the Baltimore metropolitan area numbered 16,764 as of 2000, making up 0.7 percent of the area's population.[4] In the same year Baltimore city's Greek population was 2,693, 0.4% of the city's population
These numbers are a joke.....where are all these Poles, Italians, and Greeks that you see in the Northeast?
These are way closer to numbers you would see in the South vs. the Northeast,
There is a "Little Italy" in Arkansas, in West VA, and in San Diego........
Nice try.....voting Democratic doesn't cut it. I'm still waiting......
The Greek community in the Baltimore metropolitan area numbered 16,764 as of 2000, making up 0.7 percent of the area's population.[4] In the same year Baltimore city's Greek population was 2,693, 0.4% of the city's population
These numbers are a joke.....where are all these Poles, Italians, and Greeks that you see in the Northeast?
These are way closer to numbers you would see in the South vs. the Northeast,
There is a "Little Italy" in Arkansas, in West VA, and in San Diego........
Still waiting......MD is SOUTHERN.
That first wikipedia article also says, Baltimore is home to one of the largest Greek American communities in the United States. The community is centered in the Greektown and Highlandtown neighborhoods of East Baltimore.
So, they may not be a big % of the city population, but they're still one of the largest Greek communities in the country. I didn't find comparable wikipedia articles for Philly or Boston, but another source said Philly had a Greek population of just under 6,000... and it's a bigger city than Baltimore.
And yes, voting overwhelmingly Democratic does set Maryland apart from the South, whether you like it or not. MD sends eight members to the House, one is a Republican. That's a lot like MA (0/9) or NJ (2/12).
I could add more about Maryland politics: the state passed marriage-equality back in 2012, eliminated capital punishment in 2013 and legalized medical marijuna in 2014. Not what you'd expect from a "Southern" state.
Anyway, you already said you're going to keep on repeating your line that "Maryland is Southern," even before you saw the reply to your "tell me why it's Northeastern" question. So clearly you're already dug in. Time for you to try to support your position if you want to keep this debate going.
That first wikipedia article also says, Baltimore is home to one of the largest Greek American communities in the United States. The community is centered in the Greektown and Highlandtown neighborhoods of East Baltimore.
So, they may not be a big % of the city population, but they're still one of the largest Greek communities in the country. I didn't find comparable wikipedia articles for Philly or Boston, but another source said Philly had a Greek population of just under 6,000... and it's a bigger city than Baltimore.
And yes, voting overwhelmingly Democratic does set Maryland apart from the South, whether you like it or not. MD sends eight members to the House, one is a Republican. That's a lot like MA (0/9) or NJ (2/12).
I could add more about Maryland politics: the state passed marriage-equality back in 2012, eliminated capital punishment in 2013 and legalized medical marijuna in 2014. Not what you'd expect from a "Southern" state.
Anyway, you already said you're going to keep on repeating your line that "Maryland is Southern," even before you saw the reply to your "tell me why it's Northeastern" question. So clearly you're already dug in. Time for you to try to support your position if you want to keep this debate going.
0.7% is "one of the largest Greek populations?????" There are more Greeks in one street of the multiple Greektowns in Chicago than in all of Baltimore (hyperbole).
I don't need to debate you or keep this "debate" going because it's a known fact that Maryland is Southern. That's how it's classified. I've stopped reading your "evidence" because you can't provide any information to prove otherwise. Debate over.....
So, my opinion on all this is that MD is a border state, a mixture of Northern and Southern traits that vary from region to region. You lived in the part that is most connected to the states to our north. What is your opinion on the regional status of Southern Maryland, Western Maryland, and the Eastern Shore?
Keep in mind that while Maryland is a small state by land area, people ID here by region and county. Our settlements are old, many people have lived in the same region since the Revolutionary War. When two MDers meet, the question of "which county" comes up quickly. If the two people have a region or regional roots in common, a conversation normally follows. If not, the conversation normally peters out fast. Somebody from Baltimore or the D.C. burbs normally has less in common with me that a person from northern WV or SW PA, for instance.
No, now it's your turn to try to prove MD is Southern.
For example, in what Southern city could you find an ethnic presence like Baltimore's?
Probably none, but if there is such a city, let's hear about it. And you certainly can't name
a Southern state that votes the way MD does.
Thanks for sharing. Same to you.
Hey, first of all, thanks for being polite.
So if you were at some faraway airport or hotel, and ran into someone from Garrett County,
you'd find a lot to talk about... but if they were from the Eastern Shore, probably not?
Yes, I lived in the urban / suburban core of MD, where most of the population is.
And I had a friend from Dorchester County, so we'd go over there now and then...
obviously, that's a very different kind of place. I didn't spend much time in Western or
Southern MD, so haven't got any personal impressions to go by.
It sounds like the point you're making is that the way people live doesn't necessarily correspond to state lines. That was the same thesis the author Joel Garreau made when he wrote "The Nine Nations of North America." He assigned a tiny slice of S MD to "Dixie," and the rest of the state to "the Foundry" (which included WV, PA, NJ, NY, but also e.g. Ohio and Michigan.) Do you agree with that?
I still think that if we must assign states in their entirety to categories, MD belongs to the Northeast, not the South. I'm still waiting for even a moderately-persuasive case to the contrary. Someone mentioned the structure of local government (and that was interesting), but I don't think it weighs more heavily than the state's voting behavior.
But thanks for reminding us that there can be big differences within a state, including a small state.
Rural vs urban is a major difference.
"Thanks for sharing. Same to you."
With the condition Ca. is in, you should send more time worrying about it, then spending your time on MD.
I could care LESS what you think about MD's status.
The bottom line is you asked a question and don't like the answer so you "argue"
To somewhat answer your question the Mason-Dixon Line for a long time was more or less the divider between Free and Slave states.
Maryland's governmental structure is very Southern-small number of incorporated municipalities (157 in the whole state) with the main driver of local government being the County, especially in education and law enforcement.
The practice of politics is very plantation like (or Big Man if you like that better).
I have a quiz for you:
1. You discover the water main in front of your house is leaking. Who do you call to report it?
A) your local Town Hall
B) your County Commissioner
C) your Congressman
2. The vacation house next door is being broken into. Who do you call to report it?
A) the local Sheriff's Department
B) the Maryland State Police
C) No one. You wait three weeks until the next Town Council meeting and tell its members about it
3. Your Town is having a large festival this weekend. You make which of the following plans for your tourist dependent business?
A) you order more product to sell because you're sure to need it
B) you schedule extra employees
C) you plan to close because you get stressed out by having too many customers and besides, you want to go to the festival because there will be beer wagons and you can get drunk on the street
The correct answer for all three questions is C and are situations I've experienced in Maryland involving Maryland natives. Now, I do have to say that 2 and 3 were done by Montgomery County natives who moved here.
#1 - I call the Town Hall. They will fix it. Then rattle my congress critters cage again to ask why we can't get our fair share of federal infrastructure dollars to help replace our 125 year old water main (Baltimore and Hagerstown don't seem to have that problem)
#2 - Sherriffs Department because our Town pays for 3 'Town Deputies' to b e assigned primarily to the town but 911 is centralized. But I have some neighbors who would simply pull down the Shotgun and step out and say 'What are y'all doing there?' (They would have their spouse or kids call 911)
#3 - Make sure I have the back gate clear because they will close Main Street so I won't be able to get in or out of my main driveway and I will have friends coming in to enjoy the party. Schedule Employees? I just tell the kids they have to work that day and get a couple cousins to drive in from the farm to help.
Nice try.....voting Democratic doesn't cut it. I'm still waiting......
The Greek community in the Baltimore metropolitan area numbered 16,764 as of 2000, making up 0.7 percent of the area's population.[4] In the same year Baltimore city's Greek population was 2,693, 0.4% of the city's population
These numbers are a joke.....where are all these Poles, Italians, and Greeks that you see in the Northeast?
These are way closer to numbers you would see in the South vs. the Northeast,
There is a "Little Italy" in Arkansas, in West VA, and in San Diego........
Still waiting......MD is SOUTHERN.
Many people forget (or never knew) that Baltimore was the 2nd largest immigration port (Behind New York, Ellis Island) in the hey day of immigration. While most immediately went west via the B&O to future lives in the Midwest some stayed in the local area. But over the years they have spread out throughout the region and beyond. It has been over 100 years since the immigration era and the desire to remain concentrated in ethnic enclaves has disappeared since we are now several generations into their integration into American society
That first wikipedia article also says, Baltimore is home to one of the largest Greek American communities in the United States. The community is centered in the Greektown and Highlandtown neighborhoods of East Baltimore.
So, they may not be a big % of the city population, but they're still one of the largest Greek communities in the country. I didn't find comparable wikipedia articles for Philly or Boston, but another source said Philly had a Greek population of just under 6,000... and it's a bigger city than Baltimore.
And yes, voting overwhelmingly Democratic does set Maryland apart from the South, whether you like it or not. MD sends eight members to the House, one is a Republican. That's a lot like MA (0/9) or NJ (2/12).
I could add more about Maryland politics: the state passed marriage-equality back in 2012, eliminated capital punishment in 2013 and legalized medical marijuna in 2014. Not what you'd expect from a "Southern" state.
Anyway, you already said you're going to keep on repeating your line that "Maryland is Southern," even before you saw the reply to your "tell me why it's Northeastern" question. So clearly you're already dug in. Time for you to try to support your position if you want to keep this debate going.
It wasn't that long ago that the south was solidly Democratic. Being republican is 'the new south' of the post Vietnam era.
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