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Old 09-01-2009, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
1,474 posts, read 3,644,903 times
Reputation: 1790

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I've lived in PG County my whole life (over 40 years). I thought I was far removed from anything southern. I've never identified as southern and I never felt a southern influence here (at all!). Maybe an outsider may see something southern here, but I don't and I've been here my whole life.

 
Old 09-01-2009, 04:52 PM
 
Location: N/A
1,359 posts, read 3,370,398 times
Reputation: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeyserSoze View Post
I know this is already obvious cpterp, but there's no point in discussing this with you any further. You have the nerve to call me stubborn and persistent, yet despite evidence to the contrary, at the end of the day you only believe what you want to believe, and only provide evidence you can find that supports your own agenda. I never denied Maryland had some Northeastern characteristics, but to claim that the entire state as such is simply inaccurate. You deny the Southern quirks of Maryland, or downplay them as much as possible due to some outlandish prejudice you have, all so you could feel that you live in a Northeastern state when you really don't.
Please point out where I said that you were "stubborn and persistent." I would say that the latter term would acurately describe me. If you go to the very first page, you'll notice that the very same posters who are on that page (including me) are the very same posters still discussing the topic. Not that you'd believe me, but I have no prejudice against anyone. Most posters on this thread are claiming Maryland to be Northern (or more so than southern). There's a same exact thread on the Gen. US page, with similar views.

I love where I live, and wouldn't love it any less if were defined as Northern, Southern, Mid-Atlantic, Midwest, whatever...Maryland, Delaware, and West Virginia aren't black and white North or South, just like Pennsylvania has numerous Midwestern characterisitcs it's generally referred to as a Northeastern state. I admitted Maryland had parts that were Southern and all I've been saying this entire time is that the Northern characteristics far outweigh the Southern ones, while you're basically saying the opposite.
 
Old 09-02-2009, 07:41 AM
 
Location: btw Bmore and DC but in the Bmore Metro Stat Area
671 posts, read 1,883,659 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjg1963 View Post
I've lived in PG County my whole life (over 40 years). I thought I was far removed from anything southern. I've never identified as southern and I never felt a southern influence here (at all!). Maybe an outsider may see something southern here, but I don't and I've been here my whole life.
you mean in Laurel? perhaps someone in Brandywine would feel differently.
 
Old 09-02-2009, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
1,474 posts, read 3,644,903 times
Reputation: 1790
Quote:
Originally Posted by vivo View Post
you mean in Laurel? perhaps someone in Brandywine would feel differently.
I grew up close to Langley Park near the Montgomery Co Line. I've lived in Riverdale, Beltsville, and Hyattsville. I've only been in Laurel for the last 14 years. And, yes, you are probably right, maybe someone in Brandywind would feel different. PG County is a large county and the northern and southern ends are a little different. To be honest, I hear more of a "country" accent in Laurel than anywhere else.
 
Old 09-02-2009, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Cumberland
5,303 posts, read 8,568,873 times
Reputation: 3762
I just realized that most of our discussion has been about proving or disproving Maryland's Southern heritage. I think it is time we discussed what Northern heritage is, and to what extent it appears in Maryland. To be fair, any pre-1860 identity should be considered history ( I am sure Cpterp would agree.) Also vague comments about suburbia and the rush rush commuter lifestyle should be excluded since those are traits that exists anywhere in America there is rapid new growth.

So if the South is the land of sweet tea and fried chicken; twangs and drawls; and vesitages of that "peculiar institution," What is the North?
 
Old 09-02-2009, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Dudes in brown flip-flops
660 posts, read 1,539,599 times
Reputation: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
I just realized that most of our discussion has been about proving or disproving Maryland's Southern heritage. I think it is time we discussed what Northern heritage is, and to what extent it appears in Maryland. To be fair, any pre-1860 identity should be considered history ( I am sure Cpterp would agree.) Also vague comments about suburbia and the rush rush commuter lifestyle should be excluded since those are traits that exists anywhere in America there is rapid new growth.

So if the South is the land of sweet tea and fried chicken; twangs and drawls; and vesitages of that "peculiar institution," What is the North?
Excellent question!

I would say the North involves non-Anglo Saxon white people (Irish, Italians, Jews), heavy industry (or at least abandoned remnants of heavy industry), no African Americans in rural areas, and possibly people who are more honest (or plain old blunt) about their thoughts and opinions.

I think a lot of Maryland meets my standards, like Carroll or Baltimore, and a lot of Maryland doesn't, like St. Mary's or Salisbury. But like I said earlier in this thread, I think parts of Maryland are clearly Northern, and parts are clearly Southern. But mild versions of both
 
Old 09-02-2009, 05:08 PM
 
Location: N/A
1,359 posts, read 3,370,398 times
Reputation: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
I just realized that most of our discussion has been about proving or disproving Maryland's Southern heritage. I think it is time we discussed what Northern heritage is, and to what extent it appears in Maryland. To be fair, any pre-1860 identity should be considered history ( I am sure Cpterp would agree.) Also vague comments about suburbia and the rush rush commuter lifestyle should be excluded since those are traits that exists anywhere in America there is rapid new growth.

So if the South is the land of sweet tea and fried chicken; twangs and drawls; and vesitages of that "peculiar institution," What is the North?
I'll assume that North means Northeast (Washington, North Dakota, and Illinois are Northern). In addition to Stephen's very accurate description you'll find that the nearly all Northeastern states share the following qualities:

-small
-well educated
-densely populated
-wealthy
-economies heavily focused on tech/financial/service sector
-have good rail transit (vast majority of population lives within an hour of some form of frequent rail service whether intercity, light, commuter, or heavy rail)
-heavily liberal/Democratic
-didn't secede (regardless of extraneous "motivating" factors)
-fast-paced; unfriendly (subjective)
-high prevalency of lyme disease (File:Lyme Disease Risk Map.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
-it actually gets cold in winter (subjective, but duh)

N.B. You may find a few Southern states may share a couple of these characteristics, but no state has all (or even most) of them.
 
Old 09-02-2009, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
5,303 posts, read 8,568,873 times
Reputation: 3762
The lyme disease map speaks to a much simpler truth, deer with the infected ticks can't swim across the Potomac River. That trait has nothing to do with American regional identity.

Most of the other traits listed seem like reasonable indicators of Northeastern culture. The only trouble I have with them is that they seem to speak as much to the Urban/Rural divide in our country than the North/South. For example the rural areas of the Northeastern states are going to have less educated, less population density, and more conservative in politics, while the urban areas of the South would more closely resemble the urban areas of the North in these areas then their neighboring rural counties.
 
Old 09-02-2009, 06:46 PM
 
Location: N/A
1,359 posts, read 3,370,398 times
Reputation: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
The lyme disease map speaks to a much simpler truth, deer with the infected ticks can't swim across the Potomac River. That trait has nothing to do with American regional identity.

Most of the other traits listed seem like reasonable indicators of Northeastern culture. The only trouble I have with them is that they seem to speak as much to the Urban/Rural divide in our country than the North/South. For example the rural areas of the Northeastern states are going to have less educated, less population density, and more conservative in politics, while the urban areas of the South would more closely resemble the urban areas of the North in these areas then their neighboring rural counties.
The lyme disease thing was something I found interesting. It seemed strange that it would be so densely concentrated in a particular area of the country (plus Wisconsin for some reason). I agree about the urban/rural split, but it stresses the densely populated characteristic of the NE. Apart from New York and Penn., most Northeastern states have a large proportion of their land that is urban/suburban. 14 out of Maryland's 24 counties (counting B'more as a county) are part of either the DC, Baltimore, or Philadelphia Metro Area.

This doesn't directly relate to your post but another thing to consider is that urban areas of the North aren't layed out the same as those in the South. For instance in most cities from DC to Boston you'll find row houses very prevalent, while they're very uncommon in the South. Population densities are also relatively low for Southern cities. Prominent Southern cities such as Charlotte, Richmond, Orlando, Charleston, New Orleans, and Atlanta all have population densities less than 4,000/sq. mi. while nearly all large Northeastern cities have densities of at least double that (8K-12K mostly; New York is 27,000/sq mi), even with the rapid population growth of Southern cities like Orlando and Atlanta, and the decline of NE cities such as Baltimore.
 
Old 09-02-2009, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Cumberland
5,303 posts, read 8,568,873 times
Reputation: 3762
I am not an expert on deer's territorial or mating habits, but the map seems to suggest that natural barriers like the Potomac are a barrier to tick "migration." I would guess the Wisconsin population was introduced by humans on some transferred deer.

Baltimore definitely has a feel architectual feel more similar to the urban centers to its north than cities to its south. I think this is because Baltimore's period of growth (1860-1940) is the same as the northern cities. Cities that grew later, like Orlando or Atlanta, were influenced by the automobile.

Small state + urban center will equal high population densities. Interesting, I think PA has the largest rural population of any state in the country.
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