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Old 09-30-2009, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Germantown, MD
1,359 posts, read 3,357,575 times
Reputation: 569

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeyserSoze View Post
Mid-Atlantic & Northeast are mutually exclusive terms.
Well, I'll definitely have to disagree with you on this part. By most definitions (and they do vary a lot) the Mid-Atlantic is the part of the Northeast not in New England, including Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, DC, and maybe West Virginia. As I said before, in the DC Area Virginia is also considered part. This is how the LOC defines the region:


 
Old 09-30-2009, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Dudes in brown flip-flops
660 posts, read 1,534,588 times
Reputation: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpterp View Post
Well, I'll definitely have to disagree with you on this part. By most definitions (and they do vary a lot) the Mid-Atlantic is the part of the Northeast not in New England, including Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, DC, and maybe West Virginia. As I said before, in the DC Area Virginia is also considered part. This is how the LOC defines the region:
I agree with you, cpterp, that the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast are not mutually exclusive terms.

But New York in the Mid-Atlantic? I think people in Richmond and Norfolk are likelier than people in Buffalo or Albany would describe themselves that way. And if we're going to cite random websites about the Mid-Atlantic:

AAA Mid-Atlantic Areas Served

I'm also not sure why you think that there's a huge cultural divide between the non-DC suburban parts of Maryland and Virginia. Rural Maryland is a touch less Southern than rural Virginia, but if the Virginia Piedmont is undeniably Southern in your mind (and maybe it isn't), I don't see how Maryland gets classified as Northern.
 
Old 09-30-2009, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Germantown, MD
1,359 posts, read 3,357,575 times
Reputation: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen 81 View Post
I agree with you, cpterp, that the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast are not mutually exclusive terms.

But New York in the Mid-Atlantic? I think people in Richmond and Norfolk are likelier than people in Buffalo or Albany would describe themselves that way. And if we're going to cite random websites about the Mid-Atlantic:

AAA Mid-Atlantic Areas Served

I'm also not sure why you think that there's a huge cultural divide between the non-DC suburban parts of Maryland and Virginia. Rural Maryland is a touch less Southern than rural Virginia, but if the Virginia Piedmont is undeniably Southern in your mind (and maybe it isn't), I don't see how Maryland gets classified as Northern.
As I said it varies. Triple AAA probably defines the region purely for efficiency/financial purposes, and it does seem kind of weird that NY would be alone in in being in the NE but not part of New England (which it definitely isn't) or the Mid-Atl. Whatever, the definition changes organization to organization I just posted the map to show the states that are typically included in the Mid-Atl.

Ah boy, I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but here goes anyway... Okay, for arguments sake let's say that Southern Md and the lower Eastern Shore is just as Southern as VA, but what about Central and Western MD, and the Northern ES (including DE)? They're not Southern. So, I don't see how you can classify MD as Southern.
 
Old 09-30-2009, 11:01 AM
 
542 posts, read 1,326,143 times
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Mid-Atlantic used in Maryland usually includes Maryland, DC, and Virginia generally north of Interstate 64. In this area, it is usually defined as "where North meets South". How are New Jersey, Pennsylvania & New York Mid-Atlantic when they're Northeastern, in the Northeastern seaboard, and have no native Southern culture to speak of?
 
Old 09-30-2009, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Dudes in brown flip-flops
660 posts, read 1,534,588 times
Reputation: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeyserSoze View Post
Mid-Atlantic used in Maryland usually includes Maryland, DC, and Virginia generally north of Interstate 64. In this area, it is usually defined as "where North meets South". How are New Jersey, Pennsylvania & New York Mid-Atlantic when they're Northeastern, in the Northeastern seaboard, and have no native Southern culture to speak of?
Well NJ, PA and NY were known as the Middle Colonies 250 years ago, so there's some historical basis for calling them Mid-Atlantic. Unfortunately, that same basis results in Maryland being firmly in the South, which I don't think was what the LOC map was supposed to demonstrate.

Also, "Southwest, Old"? I think that label alone makes me wonder what is going on at the LOC. I'm not entirely clear what cultural ties bind Louisiana and Oklahoma together.
 
Old 09-30-2009, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Germantown, MD
1,359 posts, read 3,357,575 times
Reputation: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeyserSoze View Post
Mid-Atlantic used in Maryland usually includes Maryland, DC, and Virginia generally north of Interstate 64. In this area, it is usually defined as "where North meets South". How are New Jersey, Pennsylvania & New York Mid-Atlantic when they're Northeastern, in the Northeastern seaboard, and have no native Southern culture to speak of?
You don't get what I'm saying. The Mid-Atlantic is a part of the Northeast. New England and the Mid-Atlantic make up the Northeast. Just as how the Deep South and Upper South make up the South. I agree that in the DC Area of MD, Mid-Atlantic usually means DC, MD, VA because the states are tied together economically in that region, but elsewhere it almost always includes DE and PA, and usually NJ, NY and WV, but not neccesarily Virginia, but it varies a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen 81 View Post
Also, "Southwest, Old"? I think that label alone makes me wonder what is going on at the LOC. I'm not entirely clear what cultural ties bind Louisiana and Oklahoma together.
Yeah, that looked questionable to me as well. The LOC def. isn't definitive I just wanted to show an example of a modern definition of Mid-Atlantic.

I just typed "Mid-Atantic States" into google and here's what came up:

EPA:



Wikipedia:



NY Times:


 
Old 09-30-2009, 03:25 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,398 posts, read 7,300,357 times
Reputation: 2848
Quote:
Originally Posted by tercel95 View Post
Have you read any other posts in this thread? What facts do you have to back up that people from MD aren't "southern"...
Yes I did read other posts...and all the debate simply made me roll my eyes.
Sorry hon. Anyone from Maryland is a Yankee in my book, as well as in the books of most of the people I know here in a state that is undebateably Southern....At best, Marylanders are historically, a half-assed Southerner, since they couldnt quite make up their mind which side they wanted to be on during the War. Sympathies to the South doth not a Southerner make.

Let the flaming begin...
 
Old 09-30-2009, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,327 posts, read 2,836,374 times
Reputation: 1480
Well, I put 2 maps together, the Telsur Southern dialect map and the US Ancestry Map. The red line is the upper boundary of Southern dialect. I think together they help locate the upper reaches of the South. I also think it shows that while people can put WV and VA on all types of maps, this is the one where they belong. If I could have figured out how to overlay the US religion map onto this map it would have shown clearly what I mean, religion+language+ancestry.





Here is the religion map of the east coast, a clear demarcation between the traditional NE and WV/VA.

 
Old 09-30-2009, 07:09 PM
 
130 posts, read 330,631 times
Reputation: 81
this thing still going?
 
Old 09-30-2009, 09:05 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,913,913 times
Reputation: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpterp View Post
As usual your post lacks logic. Maryland and Virginia are two different states, and Virginia is only considered Mid-Atlantic in the DC Area.



The majority of the posts do not suggest Maryland is Southern, and why did we have to start up this thread again? Is 32 pages not enough? Can't we just leave it that Maryland has qualities from both sides. Maryland historically is a Southern state, but today most residents and organizations call it Mid-Atlantic or Northeastern.
Again if Maryland is not a Southern State than Virginia is not a Southern State either..........



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