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Old 08-01-2009, 11:57 AM
 
Location: SE
331 posts, read 1,097,497 times
Reputation: 145

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tercel95 View Post
I disagree, St. Mary's county is very similar in my opinion, especially when you take the transients out of the equation... I went to a cookout not too long ago in the South county where the animal I was eating was killed earlier in the day...

By the way PG is not Southern MD...

I live in Jacksonville, FL now and there are more similarities than I would have imagined...
Did I say that PG was Southern MD? Stop trying to disagree when there is no reason to.

Now, I do agree with you somewhat about St. Mary's and other southern counties (Charles, Calvert). Killing and eating animals is a way of life for a lot of families I know of.

 
Old 08-01-2009, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Warner Robins, GA
919 posts, read 2,346,533 times
Reputation: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaisedWell View Post
Did I say that PG was Southern MD? Stop trying to disagree when there is no reason to.

Now, I do agree with you somewhat about St. Mary's and other southern counties (Charles, Calvert). Killing and eating animals is a way of life for a lot of families I know of.
Sorry I just get frustrated when people assume that all of MD is like DC or Baltimore... That doesn't just pertain to what people think about MD as a whole it also has to do with where our state income tax goes... Like people in Southern MD paying for an Inter-county connector in central MD that they will never take advantage of when we can never get the funding we need for our own transportation issues...
 
Old 08-01-2009, 08:49 PM
 
Location: N/A
1,359 posts, read 3,370,962 times
Reputation: 572
Another "is Maryland Southern?" thread... Maryland is not Southern. There may be one or two things that tie Maryland to the South, but overall it's Northeastern (more specifically Mid-Atlantic). Maryland is ultra-liberal, Catholicism is the largest denomination, we don't have Southern accents, we're small and densely populated, we eat srapple and blue crabs with Old Bay, we don't drink sweet tea and eat grits, we don't say y'all, we're economically very reliant on our service sector (and a part of the BosWash Northeast Corridor), we don't have any NASCAR tracks, and we fought with the Union (albeit indecisively). Okay, maybe some of that is subjective, but anyways maybe back in the past before the Civil War MD was Southern, but not anymore.

Some say that Southern MD, the Eastern Shore, and even Western MD (minus Frederick County) are "Southern." Just because they're rural doesn't mean they're "Southern." Every single state has rural areas. I've seen a Confederate Flag once on a car not two hours outside of New York (Rockland County).

Southern MD is quickly becoming suburbia, and Charles and Calvert are two of the top 10 wealthiest counties in the country with populations 65K-250K. Western MD (part of the economically depressed Rust Belt), is more like the WV Panhandle and Central PA than anywhere else, and the Eastern Shore is a growing tourist destination, with some poultry farms. In fact one of the counties on the shore (Cecil) is part of the Delaware Valley (Philadelphia Metro Area).
 
Old 08-02-2009, 06:20 AM
 
26 posts, read 114,205 times
Reputation: 20
I don't consider "hunting your dinner" as a particularly southern thing. That is a rural thing and I have friends and relatives in NY state who do that. And friends in Houston and Atlanta who would be completely grossed out by that idea.

It's interesting that western MD is so close to Pittsburgh and "the rust belt" as someone here put it and across the small state in the bay area is so different.
 
Old 08-02-2009, 07:35 AM
 
Location: N/A
1,359 posts, read 3,370,962 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by garine View Post
I don't consider "hunting your dinner" as a particularly southern thing. That is a rural thing and I have friends and relatives in NY state who do that. And friends in Houston and Atlanta who would be completely grossed out by that idea.
Exactly. Although, if it wasn't for the prevalency of lyme-disease carrying ticks (another thing that seperates MD from the South btw: Lyme Disease Risk Map), it would be completely banned in many parts of the state (such as Mont. Co. which recently released a ban because of the rapidly growing population of deer).
 
Old 08-02-2009, 07:41 AM
 
5,748 posts, read 11,020,921 times
Reputation: 4502
Quote:
Originally Posted by tercel95 View Post
Sorry I just get frustrated when people assume that all of MD is like DC or Baltimore.
Forgive me if I'm intruding as I no longer live in Maryland, but I thought I'd chime in regarding the quoted post. I used to live in Howard County and spent a great deal of time in Baltimore. Neither area struck me as being southern at all. I can't really say whether or not other parts of Maryland feel southern.
 
Old 08-02-2009, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Cumberland
5,304 posts, read 8,572,158 times
Reputation: 3767
Yes, CPterp we have had this conversation before and I feel we are debating the same points over again.

1. Parts of Maryland do have Southern accents. Don't believe me, ask William Labov the authority on dialectal variation in America. He includes Southern Maryland and a large chunk of the Eastern Shore in his Southern dialectal region. http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atla...p/NatMap1.html

2. Your view of the state is skewed sharply towards the central region of the state. Nearly all of the traits you list, ultra-liberal, densely populated, service economy based on metro regions, etc. are true only about 1/2 of the land area of the state. Granted the majority of the population lives in this area, but lumping the whole state under these characterstics is an error.

3. I think your experience in the rural parts of the state is limited. To describe the Eastern Shore as "a growing tourist destination with some poultry farms," is like saying Antarctica is a "growing scientific research center with some ice!" Head two miles off of Rt. 50 anywhere on the Eastern shore and you will find yourself in surrounded by farms, water, and Southern accents.

You need to realize this isn't a black and white issue. I proffer that the very fact we are having this debate is proof that Maryland has a split identity. Go to the NY forum and ask if NY is Northern or Southern. My bet is every serious poster will say North. Go to the GA forum and ask if if GA is Southern. My guess is again that every poster will agree.

So why the dispute here? Do you really think such a large portion of Maryland natives would be ignorant over the identify of our state? Or could it be possible that Maryland occupies a geographic and cultural position between the two extremes where North and South can be seen depending on who you talk to and where you talk to them?

I am sure it is the later.
 
Old 08-02-2009, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Warner Robins, GA
919 posts, read 2,346,533 times
Reputation: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
Yes, CPterp we have had this conversation before and I feel we are debating the same points over again.

1. Parts of Maryland do have Southern accents. Don't believe me, ask William Labov the authority on dialectal variation in America. He includes Southern Maryland and a large chunk of the Eastern Shore in his Southern dialectal region. http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atla...p/NatMap1.html

2. Your view of the state is skewed sharply towards the central region of the state. Nearly all of the traits you list, ultra-liberal, densely populated, service economy based on metro regions, etc. are true only about 1/2 of the land area of the state. Granted the majority of the population lives in this area, but lumping the whole state under these characterstics is an error.

3. I think your experience in the rural parts of the state is limited. To describe the Eastern Shore as "a growing tourist destination with some poultry farms," is like saying Antarctica is a "growing scientific research center with some ice!" Head two miles off of Rt. 50 anywhere on the Eastern shore and you will find yourself in surrounded by farms, water, and Southern accents.

You need to realize this isn't a black and white issue. I proffer that the very fact we are having this debate is proof that Maryland has a split identity. Go to the NY forum and ask if NY is Northern or Southern. My bet is every serious poster will say North. Go to the GA forum and ask if if GA is Southern. My guess is again that every poster will agree.

So why the dispute here? Do you really think such a large portion of Maryland natives would be ignorant over the identify of our state? Or could it be possible that Maryland occupies a geographic and cultural position between the two extremes where North and South can be seen depending on who you talk to and where you talk to them?

I am sure it is the later.
Well put Sir...
 
Old 08-02-2009, 11:19 AM
 
Location: N/A
1,359 posts, read 3,370,962 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsideboy View Post
Yes, CPterp we have had this conversation before and I feel we are debating the same points over again.

1. Parts of Maryland do have Southern accents. Don't believe me, ask William Labov the authority on dialectal variation in America. He includes Southern Maryland and a large chunk of the Eastern Shore in his Southern dialectal region. http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atla...p/NatMap1.html

2. Your view of the state is skewed sharply towards the central region of the state. Nearly all of the traits you list, ultra-liberal, densely populated, service economy based on metro regions, etc. are true only about 1/2 of the land area of the state. Granted the majority of the population lives in this area, but lumping the whole state under these characterstics is an error.

3. I think your experience in the rural parts of the state is limited. To describe the Eastern Shore as "a growing tourist destination with some poultry farms," is like saying Antarctica is a "growing scientific research center with some ice!" Head two miles off of Rt. 50 anywhere on the Eastern shore and you will find yourself in surrounded by farms, water, and Southern accents.

You need to realize this isn't a black and white issue. I proffer that the very fact we are having this debate is proof that Maryland has a split identity. Go to the NY forum and ask if NY is Northern or Southern. My bet is every serious poster will say North. Go to the GA forum and ask if if GA is Southern. My guess is again that every poster will agree.

So why the dispute here? Do you really think such a large portion of Maryland natives would be ignorant over the identify of our state? Or could it be possible that Maryland occupies a geographic and cultural position between the two extremes where North and South can be seen depending on who you talk to and where you talk to them?

I am sure it is the later.
Well, I'm willing to accept that some Marylanders may have have Southern accents. I'm sure some residents in Pennsylvania have Southern accents as well, but how many? Labov's line between Northern and Southern dialects splits MD in half, but the majority of the residents, even below the line, don't have Southern accents (particularly Charles and Anne Arundel counties). This map from Wikipedia shows an amalgamation from the Atlas of North American English by Labov, Ash, and Boberg, and it puts the border below Northern Virginia: File:Southern American English.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. You're right about the Eastern Shore (except for the "Southern accents"), being mostly rural. I was talking about it's economy (just like the
"economy" of Antartica is focused on research).

Also, I was talking about Maryland as a whole, not just Central MD. Maryland as a whole is small, and as a whole is the 5th most densely populated state. I would also assume most would call New York a liberal state, yet the vast majority of it isn't liberal. You can say the same thing about California. You can't give all areas (or any other state) of Maryland an equal weight. Seven of Maryland's Eight House Reps. are Democrats.

I agree that it isn't a black and white issue, and that the fact this is once again being debated is proof of that. Maryland, Delaware, DC, Northern Virginia, and maybe even West Virginia form the border between North and South, but while there may be Southern cues here and there, Maryland is generally dominated by its Northern traits. So if you had to categorize the state as North or South, it would be North.
 
Old 08-02-2009, 11:29 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
35,165 posts, read 45,014,622 times
Reputation: 45543
Well I can say that Caulvert County is southern in outlook and folkways and natives have a distinct (and distinctive) accent. My oldest daughter went to college in WPA and was constantly told about her accent.
My misspelling of Calvert was intentional as that is the native pronunciation (and for those of us who have been here a long time).
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