U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Celebrating Memorial Day!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Maryland
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-14-2009, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Columbia, MD
553 posts, read 1,542,844 times
Reputation: 393

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14thandYou View Post
It may be their right, but it's completely unproductive. I feel exactly the same way regarding groups such as PETA and Greenpeace--they may have legitimate points or concerns, but those are trumped by the fanatical actions of group leaders and members.

I think everyone would welcome a legitimate dialogue about this issue--there are a lot of points to address, and a lot of potential solutions to consider. But you can't do that when people are screaming incoherently about wanting their America back.
The whole dialog on the town hall meeting disorder seems misplaced. What I see are people who are not even angry about healthcare. They're angry after watching Bush and now Obama want to socialize losses and privatize gains. They are angry because we're seeing massive wealth transfers from the poor and middle class to the rich people and institutions in the US and globally.

People are angry when they see the trillions (yes, trillions) we've SPENT and 24 trillion in debt we've guaranteed to ensure what? That places like BofA and Goldman Sachs don't go out of business? Because they wanted to take a lot of risks with the cheap capital they had at their disposal?

That GM is too important to let fail, but real healthcare reform can only be possible if it doesn't hurt private insurers or big pharmaceuticals?

That we had to bailout AIG for hundreds of billions just so they could pay off the bets people made via swaps which should've been illegal in the first place?

That we can backstop trillions of dollars in commercial mortgage backed securities so real estate investment trusts who overbuilt offices, malls, strip malls, and hotels don't go out of business, but we can't find ways to increase college loan programs so we can invest in our future?

Not to mention, there are elements of truth to what the Repubs are saying about healthcare rationing. I've lived overseas in France and in Spain. I've seen firsthand how the elderly do tend to have the longest waits for care and the most rationing of it. If someone 85 years old complains about chest problems and wants to see a cardiologist, yes, they'll probably have a wait. But if they show up in a hospital will they get the best treatment possible? Absolutely. In Spain (pretty certain in France as well), there is private insurance you can purchase on top of your publicly paid insurance to make sure those expensive or risky treatments accessible to you. Yet that still gets dismissed as 'crazy talk' by the media and the administration here in the US.

Personally, I find it unacceptable that we don't have universal healthcare, and if we do truly open up access to every citizen in the US I'll be somewhat satisfied, but there is no evidence any of the plans will be anything other than poor compromises which benefit insurers and pharma but still manage to put tremendous costs onto the public balance sheet with little benefit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-14-2009, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Rockville, MD
3,547 posts, read 7,754,820 times
Reputation: 1361
Quote:
Originally Posted by trickymost View Post
Personally, I find it unacceptable that we don't have universal healthcare, and if we do truly open up access to every citizen in the US I'll be somewhat satisfied, but there is no evidence any of the plans will be anything other than poor compromises which benefit insurers and pharma but still manage to put tremendous costs onto the public balance sheet with little benefit.
I wish that I disagreed with this assessment, but I fear you are correct. I have very little faith that this attempt at health care reform will lead to a demonstrably better system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2009, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Germantown, MD
1,359 posts, read 3,356,180 times
Reputation: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by trickymost View Post
They are angry because we're seeing massive wealth transfers from the poor and middle class to the rich people and institutions in the US and globally.
That's interesting since I seem to remember Obama wanting to tax millionairesto help pay for healthcare.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2009, 04:52 PM
 
715 posts, read 1,903,377 times
Reputation: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpterp View Post
That's interesting since I seem to remember Obama wanting to tax millionairesto help pay for healthcare.
Don't believe politicians.

All will be taxed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2009, 11:17 PM
 
1,597 posts, read 2,997,876 times
Reputation: 1213
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpterp View Post
That's interesting since I seem to remember Obama wanting to tax millionairesto help pay for healthcare.
I think the OP was referring to the fact that both Bush and Obama have borrowed money (to bailout the wealthy) that we and future generations of Americans will be obligated to repay.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2009, 11:20 PM
 
1,597 posts, read 2,997,876 times
Reputation: 1213
Quote:
Originally Posted by live_strong28 View Post
Don't believe politicians.

All will be taxed.
I'm willing to be taxed at a higher income tax rate to provide universal healthcare to my fellow countrymen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-17-2009, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Columbia, MD
553 posts, read 1,542,844 times
Reputation: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ2MDdude View Post
I'm willing to be taxed at a higher income tax rate to provide universal healthcare to my fellow countrymen.
As am I. If healthcare reform is undertaken with sound free market principles and a reasonable degree of oversight, then there's every reason to expect our long term healthcare will be far more effective and far less expensive.

On this issue, everyone has lost sight of the fact we are on the cusp of a technological transformation in medical technology which compares to the invention of the wheel, invention of the cotton gin, or invention of the plane/auto.

So if it takes a tax in the short term to make sure we are at a place when costs come down and technology is far better, sign me up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Maryland
Similar Threads
View detailed profiles of:
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top