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This has been a fascinating thread, mainly because it absolutely ignores unarguable facts with respect to MA (or RI, CT, southern NY, NJ, MD, etc.). That is, these are already densely populated states – and have been for many decades – and to get the kind of growth one sees in TX or GA would require developing land that scarcely exists (or that I, personally, would not want to be developed). MA is 6K square miles versus TX’s 254K, much of which is vacant. Is this really that hard to understand?
Thank you! Unless you're moving into this area from, say, the midwest or TX, you cannot fathom how small in area we are here. I've had out-of-state friends laugh hysterically at the size of RI, and I'm like, "What?!?" We also have a rather stringent "conservation land" thing where we CANNOT build anything on what would be considered buildable land somewhere else. That limits a lot of potential housing options.
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One thing I find interesting in John Keller’s report and the discussion is the idea that you can just build your way to affordable housing, regardless of the environmental and economic costs. Posters may not realize this, but the area between 128 and 495 was victim to some of the worst sprawling development in the nation between about 1985 and 2005 – on par with suburban Atlanta, ironically. The answer, certainly, is to build more housing, but to build it with much greater density in a town-like setting that offers the kinds of basic amenities that people use every day and doesn’t require them to get into their cars to buy toothpaste.
The area around 295 on the MA/RI border is like this. It disheartens me somewhat, but at the same time it's not as sprawl-y as it could be.
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I can’t even unpack what all of the conflicting stuff concerning MA Type-A personalities and Puritanical work ethic is all about – too weird to fathom for someone who’s lived in New England most of his life. Most people I know want a much better work-life balance than they’re getting these days, and MA certainly doesn’t have the market cornered on a hectic lifestyle. I routinely work with people in NY, for example, who would tell you that the pace of life in Boston is sleepy by comparison.
We're nothing compared to those living in the Tri-State area Really, I have relatives living in northern NJ and commute into NYC every single day. They think I'm the slow one, me, the native Bostionian. In a way they're right -- as hectic as Boston is, it's miles behind NYC.
I think most of us born-and-bred here aren't cognizant of how much the Puritan ethic still entrenches us in some ways -- much of the time it's subtle, but other times it's apparently obvious to others, especially to those who aren't originally from around here.
So what if MA move up to NH? They still commute to work in MA because that's here all the good jobs are in New England. I'd like to see everyone in NH also only work in NH, but they can't because you have a shortage of jobs up there.
If MA tanks, then NH will follow.
We worry about Mass residents moving to NH because we don't want your POLITICAL CORRUPTION following up here with them Your state is run like a third world country (big dig) (debt) & om & on.
Belive it or not.....there are good jobs in NH, and I hate to break it to you but most NH residents work in NH, not Mass. Well less than 10% of our residents work in Mass. Also we welcome those thousand new jobs moving up here from Fidelity
My issue with MA is the state seems to be naive and think just because it is "Massachusetts" that jobs will just come here. The taxpayers have paid for companies to come here only to see them pack up and leave after their contract is up. Then the state acts like it has no clue why the company left or what it should do about it. It basically comes down to MA is not a business friendly state.
That's true, but your overall property tax is much worse than ours, I think. I know people who'd like to move up there but won't because of that.
A property tax is actually a very good thing because it's a direct tax.
Taxing sales is weak because if someone doesn't buy it there's no tax collected.
Taxing income is weak because if the economy goes down there's no tax collected.
Taxing property means the only way for them to stop paying it is to actually sell it which means they have to *MAINTAIN* it.
Boston is not detroit but even in the suburban areas I can count empty commercial and residential buildings every day. I even worked near an abandoned hospital..made me feel like I was near nightmare on elm st!
I've lived in mass all my life and unfortunately although the place is to the left they have no idea of what growth is about.
Every time there's a big idea it either falls apart or nothing happens. Boston Convention center..yeah that didn't bring much here...South weymouth air base closed and 15 years later there's still nothing there. Casinos are still being debated, we closed down the dog tracks...why? So now there's less jobs and more people on unemployment. We have some of the largest fishing grounds in the country but that is restricted. To note I have seen large housing developments go up but it just hasn't helped. Yes there's the CPA but that actually only works if you get in first...the last towns that get in on it will get screwed.
Tat parlors were illegal for 30 years due to one case of hepatitis. Retailers weren't allowed to open on sundays until 1990. Liquor stores couldn't sell on sundays until 2002 or so. Fireworks are still illegal (why? no issues in RI or NH or CT or the other 45+ states where you can)
Cortage park used to be the largest maker of rope in the country, now it's a flea market next to a closed walmart. The quincy shipyard made ships for ww 1, ww 2, korea, vietnam..now it's a used car lot!
The other issue I see is there's way too much of a trend as if Boston has enough jobs to support all of the eastern part of the state..that just doesn't work.
Some honestly believe that everyone that goes to school here stays here. If that were true we'd have tens upon tens of millions of people here. Immigrants largely go home because the cost of living is too high and the return on the degree is higher overseas (remember 38% of the state has a bachelors vs how much in the developing world?) I grew up with several that became doctors and neither one of them lives in mass. Why? student debt nullifies the ability to afford it here.
It isn't surprising to see other more remote areas of the state gradually fading (cape cod). No one as of yet has actually explained how the state will attract people when the baby boomers start retiring. We aren't a warm state, many of our towns don't have sidewalks, public transportation in suburbs is slim.
It's odd that we have the health care mandate and yet didn't bother to fix all the roads and bridges first...how is someone supposed to get health care once they start falling apart ? we always seem to put the cart before the horse
Mass......like NY & CA has no future. The productive residents are pouring out of the state. In the next 10 to 15 years the sales & income taxes will be pushing 10% just to pay off the massive pensions that are coming due. Everyone I know in Mass have no plans to stay there any longer than they have to.
As much as I joke about Mass residents moving to NH we in fact mostly get your best people moving up here......with all their money. It's not perfect here, but we are in a much better position to survive the coming troubles.
We have no income tax, no sales tax, no death taxes, no captital gains taxes & a citizen legislature that we pay $100 a-year. We welcome any & all sane Mass residents to move up The others.....well, come up & visit & enjoy the tax free shopping. Most of you do anyway
I plan on possibly moving up to N.H, IF I can sell my house! Nashua sounds like a nice community but how is the job market(blue collar)real estate taxes are high from what I read,BUT the tax on everthing down here and mandotory everything will more than even out!
I plan on possibly moving up to N.H, IF I can sell my house! Nashua sounds like a nice community but how is the job market(blue collar)real estate taxes are high from what I read,BUT the tax on everthing down here and mandotory everything will more than even out!
Real estate taxes change greatly from town to town. Pick a low-tax town & you will find your total tax burden is lower than Mass. Nashua is a great town & I would pick it over Manchester. You car & home insurance will be cut in half in most places here.....and no forced health care. Mass now has the highest health care costs in the USA thanks in part to Romneycare.
WBZ 4 no longer has their own website? Interesting that CBS had to make a generic one for them. As far as population decrease this has been common in New England the last 30 years in the states Mass and RI.
I'm guessing its because we have the reputation of the rude people, the job market is not great, their seems to be age descrimination for older adults seeking new career paths as entry level, and the weather only gets a "C" rating for a full year. These are things I hear other people say though, many people stay here because they are born here or afraid to leave their family.
Why people leave....cost of living is cheaper in other states, no taxes in certain states, more jobs, alot of states are less educated and don't require as much for their career candidates, people are friendlier in warmer climate states, change of scenery. The second paragraph is mostly guesses though.
My issue with MA is the state seems to be naive and think just because it is "Massachusetts" that jobs will just come here. The taxpayers have paid for companies to come here only to see them pack up and leave after their contract is up. Then the state acts like it has no clue why the company left or what it should do about it. It basically comes down to MA is not a business friendly state.
Fidelity is a perfect example. Same with Evergreen solar.
WBZ 4 no longer has their own website? Interesting that CBS had to make a generic one for them. As far as population decrease this has been common in New England the last 30 years in the states Mass and RI.
I'm guessing its because we have the reputation of the rude people, the job market is not great, their seems to be age descrimination for older adults seeking new career paths as entry level, and the weather only gets a "C" rating for a full year. These are things I hear other people say though, many people stay here because they are born here or afraid to leave their family.
Why people leave....cost of living is cheaper in other states, no taxes in certain states, more jobs, alot of states are less educated and don't require as much for their career candidates, people are friendlier in warmer climate states, change of scenery. The second paragraph is mostly guesses though.
I don't think the population of Mass decreased in the last 10 years. It didn't grow nearly as much as some southern states, but it did grow. Some parts of the state (central mass in particular) actually had significant population gains.
Also, the job market here, and overall economy for that matter, performed much better throughout the recession than did the economies of these "boom" states that have been experiencing rapid population gains in the last 10-20 years.
As for the cost of living, there is a reason it is so high. Because there are people willing to pay that much to live here. Its all market based. If people weren't willing to spend $XXX,XXX for a house, then that house wouldn't be priced as such. As for overall taxes, if anyone actually looks at some studies, MA is middle of the road as far as overall tax burden (including all taxes like income, property, sales, etc....).
Coming from NY myself, MA feels like a BARGAIN in the tax/COL department
Well Brent thank you for clearing some of that up. You would be suprised how most people (myself included) that lived in these states had no idea, guess it is easier to focus on the negative.
As far as overall state population gain, it seems to be alot of college students, but most of them come and go. Massachusetts has most of the best colleges and universities in the country, even the community colleges here are tougher than community colleges in other states.
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Really, I have relatives living in northern NJ and commute into NYC every single day. They think I'm the slow one, me, the native Bostionian. In a way they're right -- as hectic as Boston is, it's miles behind NYC.
Your state is run like a third world country (big dig) (debt) & om & on. 
