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So this lady chooses to opt out because the farmers market accepts EBT cards so that people can buy fresh fruits and veggis and she's "getting heat?" Let her go, that's fine with me. Fresh fruits and veggis from a market are exactly what the EBT cards should be used for.
That's exactly how I read it.
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Where's the so-called "intolerance" that we need to stand up against? It's a not for profit group that puts the market on. If she doesn't like their policies, she can leave (and she did). Even if they kicked her out (which they didn't), they're entitled to as well. She can open her own pie store and sell all the pies she wants without accepting EBT.
Exactly.
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The appearance of a person in a retail position can positively or adversely impact sales and overall business. Thousands of businesses hire for retail positions using looks as one of the criteria. They just don't announce that they do it. If looks didn't matter, then I should be able to show up for job interviews unshaven and wearing sweatpants.
I was a unwitting victim of this many years ago. It had nothing to do with my skill level and everything to do with my physically not being the "brand" the company wished to project. (I also want to add that a lot of it depends on the kind of retail and the image they wish to project...mine in question was a high-end retailer. Could I have called them out for discrimination? Not really because nothing was ever stated in black and white. The understanding was very much there, though, and therefore harder to prove.)
I was a unwitting victim of this many years ago. It had nothing to do with my skill level and everything to do with my physically not being the "brand" the company wished to project. (I also want to add that a lot of it depends on the kind of retail and the image they wish to project...mine in question was a high-end retailer. Could I have called them out for discrimination? Not really because nothing was ever stated in black and white. The understanding was very much there, though, and therefore harder to prove.)
That's tough. My ex girlfriend had a similar experience and decided not to pursue any charges or anything like that. It was a designer boutique in San Francisco. She has a degree in fashion. She was super qualified and experienced, but didn't look exactly how they wanted her too.
My feeling is that actual qualifications and skill level should be the most important factor when hiring. I really do believe that in most cases that's typically how it works as in the end it's all about money and the company with the most qualified employees will likely be most successful. However, when we're talking about a coffee shop, the skill set required is minimal. If all other skills/qualifications are equal, it's easy to see why a company would choose the candidate with better looks as it's best for business.
Lots of businesses use phrases like "fit/in-shape", "warm, welcoming personality." and "clean, attractive appearance" (which is meant to imply their dress and hygene but is often substituted for overall looks) in their qualifications for a job. It's REALLY tough to to get them for discrimination with qualifications like that. If two women apply to Marilou's and one is 5'6 110 with blonde hair and blue eyes and the other is 5'1 175 with acne, who's really to say that the blonde candidate was hired simply because she's prettier? She is A) in better shape and B) would likely have the more "attractive" appearance. Obviously the blonde is "prettier" but it would be hard to prove that they hired her because she's prettier. Furthermore, if she is going to bring in more customers, it's tough to say that they're wrong for hiring her. I'm amazed/horrified by how many older men (55+) loiter around my local dunkin donuts and flirt with the 16-18 year old girls behind the counter (these poor girls know them on a first name basis). They may only buy coffees and a few doughnuts, but they might be shopping elsewhere if the staff was different.
It's a tough call. A lot of retail and sales revolves around "displays" and the over aesthetic of the store. The looks of employees are part of that aesthetic. No one wants to buy food from a greasy looking guy. Marilou's goes a little further and sort of makes their baristas part of their gimmick, but it's not all that different from what everyone else is doing. Hooters has been doing it (in a more degrading fashion) for years. There are plenty of bohemian coffee shops, Honey Dew, Dunkin Donuts and local shops that don't care what you look like.
I've never been tempted to sue anyone, but I do feel I lost a job once because I'm a guy. In college, I applied for a job as an "part-time Administrative Assistant." I was a business major and wanted some experience in a real office environment. The qualifications were simply "be proficient with ms office and well organized" which I was. The hiring manager immediately noted that I was the only guy who applied and brought it up a few times in the interview. They ended up hiring a cute high school aged girl. I was more qualified, had more experience and a more flexible schedule. I was pretty annoyed, but not surprised. I can't imagine that there will be legislation out there that can completely stop this practice from happening.
Hardly the same thing as Chik-Fil-A. In fact it's not clear to me what she's complaining about. Is she saying that EBT users should not be allowed to buy pies? Or any sweets? Why not?
Sheesh, it's not cigarettes or liquor, it's a pie!
Yes, that is what she is saying (maybe that was the shorter version of the article). A pie is an already prepared food that I believe would fall under the "foods to go" category where even food stamps would not be accepted. It is a luxury. I am not for having people starve, but taxpayer money should only go towards basic necessities ie. grocery, produce, meat, etc. and clothing. They should have to prepare the food themselves rather than us paying somebody else to do it.
As far as Chic-Fil-a and MaryLou's, they are all very different scenarios. What they have in common is that they are all lone businesses taking a stand against standard PC views and what the government tells us we should do/believe/run our businesses (even though they are not violating any law). They are in turn all facing great harrassment for this. We should do what we can to support them (those of us who side with their position).
So this lady chooses to opt out because the farmers market accepts EBT cards so that people can buy fresh fruits and veggis and she's "getting heat?" Let her go, that's fine with me. Fresh fruits and veggis from a market are exactly what the EBT cards should be used for.
For those unclear, this is how it works... EBT card holders can use the card to buy "tokens" for use at the Market's vendors. One of those vendors included this lady selling pies. So yes, some EBT users can buy tokens and use them for pies. However, the pie stand is one of many in the market. Most of which sell fresh local produce. There's absolutely no problem here.
This token program is still up in the air as far as whether to include all vendors in its implementation. At this time it is only voluntary, and she stated her objections to it. In turn, she was treated very coldly and the administration made it clear their intentions. Forcing all vendors to participate seems very heavy handed to me (and yes, intolerant).
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Originally Posted by lrfox
Welfare is FAR from perfect. It has a long way to go. EBT cards are horribly abused in this state. Horribly. However, if you have a problem with that (and I think most of us should), focus your efforts on welfare reform on the state level. "Supporting" some lady who chose to leave a farmers market on her own accord is ridiculous.
Don't think for a minute that I have not done my share on the state level. In fact even the Democrat super-majority legislature now backs serious EBT reform. The main obstacle now is the governor, whom I did not support n ieither election and who's office I've contacted numerous times only to me met with some clueless college punk with an attitude (once or twice a got warmer reception depending on the issue).
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Originally Posted by lrfox
Now you're just trolling. Really? Chick-fil-A again? You had no reasonable argument in the previous Chick-Fil-A thread so you're going to bring it up again here? In a nutshell... Company who openly opposes same sex marriage wants to locate in the capital city of a state that legally allows same sex marriage. The mayor comes out in defense of the legal rights of his constituents (which again, the company would like to take away) while adhering to the legal rights of the company and there's a problem? I don't think so. Like the welfare reform, you're barking up the wrong tree. If you have an issue with same-sex marriage, focus on that. The mayor's stance on chick-fil-a was perfectly legal, and moreover, acceptable given the fact that the company funds groups that would like to take away legal rights of MA residents.
Sheesh, I just named 2 companies as examples. I didn't intend to revive a debate from a previous thread. But that you bring it up...again Menino's stance may not be illegal, just very stupid and bad leadership. I had no reasonable argument? Some may say the same about yours. When one's mind is made up that strongly, they are seldom open to any additional points especially ones that contradict their own belief. As far as "legal rights", SSM has never been voted into law here. It is still not a settled issue, contrary to popular belief. And as I said before, if Menino really wants to recreate his city into his own utopia where all businesses should pass some sort of "moral standards"; I think he is picking on the wrong kid in the schoolyard (like a bully needing a scapegoat but too cowardly to pick on the bigger/more popular kids).
Bankrolling discrimination and ignorance is not "taking a stand." There's nothing heroic or principled about it. Spare us the straw-man argument that "government is telling us how to run our businesses." That same whine is heard whenever somebody runs afoul of laws governing the minimum wage, child labor laws, sanitary codes, you name it. Publicly opposing hatred in any form isn't "harassment" - last I checked, it qualified as freedom of expression.
It's interesting that all this kicking and screaming ties in with coffee and junk food, two things everybody loves and we'd all be better off without.
Hiring based on appearance is a fact of life, although in most instances it shouldn't be. It makes perfect sense that stores selling overpriced clothing marketed toward girls who've been told that that particular style or brand makes them desirable would want to have young in-shape airheads grafted to iPhones as clerks. Sports bars are always going to want to employ a few male ex-jocks to serve drinks and a larger number of hot chicks to wait on tables. Asian restaurants will rarely if ever hire somebody whose looks don't match the cuisine. (I got my lesson in this by trying to land a gig at a "Japanese steakhouse." Living in Japan and having a knowledge and appreciation of the language, culture, etc didn't matter one bit since I'm Caucasian.) Etc etc. But showing someone qualified the door after an interview if they've presented themselves reasonably is generally not OK.
Is she saying that EBT users should not be allowed to buy pies? Or any sweets? Why not?
Sheesh, it's not cigarettes or liquor, it's a pie!
Sure, they can buy that stuff, JUST NOT WITH EBT! It's NOT their money! it's the taxpayers! You buy necessities with it, not luxuries. It's her business and it's her choice to take or not take EBT, Credit or anything else.
Paying top dollar for slow service with a poor attitude and often poor English is the primary thing keeping me away from Dunkin Donuts in the morning (that and the hideous microwaved garbage they call food that while I won't buy still have to wait for behind people who don't know better than to stick with the coffee only). I will take my money to MaryLou's (wish I was near one more frequently) where I get great coffee served efficiently with a smile (by a cute girl is nice too, but good attitude is all that is really needed). Some people simply aren't cut out for customer service(myself included), but they would be miserable doing it as well imoa. Now job discrimination is rampant in many other places where those things shouldn't matter. But yes, serving coffee requires a certain attitude that DD can't seem to figure out. I wish more of us would stop blindly giving them business (their coffee aint what it used to be either), only then will they be forced to get their act together if they want to stay in business.
Bankrolling discrimination and ignorance............ That same whine is heard whenever somebody runs afoul of laws governing the minimum wage, child labor laws, sanitary codes, you name it. Publicly opposing hatred in any form isn't "harassment"
Who in this situation is doing any of that?
I didn't realize EBT cards were a protected class.
And please stop throwing the "hatred" card around. It gets very old...
And yes, I love my coffee and junk food. I will enjoy them while they are still legal. It is all about moderation and self control my friend.
I support this woman's view. EBT cards should not be used to purchase alcohol, cigarettes, and any other kind of non necessity item. Allowing people to use their cards to buy fresh fruits and vegetables is great. It makes sense. But using them to buy other needless things is a waste of taxpayer money.
It's bad enough there isn't a limit on cash withdrawals, or the fact that several thousands of cards get "lost" or stolen each month. Any time you have the government handing out free money, there is going to be abuse.
Not to start up an old argument, but didn't it come out that the CEO of Chic-Fil-A donated large sums of money to anti-gay organizations?
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