Baker harassed for not accepting EBT payment. (Clinton, Florida: violent crime, tax)

[JacksonPanther]

Originally Posted by annerk

I have a handful of jobs that require no experience and pay $10/hour and benefits every year. Half the people I hire end up calling out from jail or just not showing up, or being a total slacker--sleeping on the job. I run a business not a daycare and whatever their issues are outside if work isn't my problem.

As a business owner, it's not your responsibility to babysit a lazy, slack worker. I don't think anyone would disagree with that - you have a business to run.

Now, you as a taxpayer (put on a different hat for a moment), what do you propose we do about people like that (lazy, slacker, can't seem to stay away from trouble)? I know the knee-jerk reaction is to say "cut them off from any assistance," but the reality is that if we do cut them off, they will graduate from slackers to criminals - hitting us over the head, breaking into our homes, stealing our cars, to get their money.

Originally Posted by annerk

And no, I don't have on site day care--I have 30 employees and very few have young kids. I do offer. Cafeteria plan where they can contribute a portion of daycare expenses pre-tax, none have ever availed of it.

This is a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? The people (really I should say "The women") who HAVE young children don't even try to apply for work, because they assume they won't find or be able to afford the child care. So they wait until all kids are school-age before looking for work.

[annerk]

Originally Posted by JacksonPanther

As a business owner, it's not your responsibility to babysit a lazy, slack worker. I don't think anyone would disagree with that - you have a business to run.

Now, you as a taxpayer (put on a different hat for a moment), what do you propose we do about people like that (lazy, slacker, can't seem to stay away from trouble)? I know the knee-jerk reaction is to say "cut them off from any assistance," but the reality is that if we do cut them off, they will graduate from slackers to criminals - hitting us over the head, breaking into our homes, stealing our cars, to get their money.

This is a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? The people (really I should say "The women") who HAVE young children don't even try to apply for work, because they assume they won't find or be able to afford the child care. So they wait until all kids are school-age before looking for work.

here in Florida we have stand your ground laws. Our crime rates are down as a result.

B the way--the last one that called out from jail was a woman.

[annerk]

Originally Posted by JacksonPanther

You realize this makes NO SENSE, don't you?

You outlaw the purchase of pies, but allow flour, sugar, and fruit.
You outlaw the purchase of fast food, but allow the purchase of ground beef and frozen french fries.
You outlaw the purchase of soda, but allow Kool-Aid packets, and 5-pound bags of sugar.
Vegetables are allowed, but what will you do when they purchase sweet potatoes/yams and turn them into a sweet concoction?

How exactly did you makes anyone healthier with the above rules?

It's not just unhealthy foods but also expensive Preparped ones. And I never said to let them have Kool Aid-that stuff is vile.

SNAP/EBT should be like WIC with allocations for purchase of specific nutritious foods, not a grocery store free for all.

[miu]

Originally Posted by JacksonPanther

It starts with jobs. Do you have jobs available for these low- or no-skilled workers?

If you do have the jobs, do you have childcare available for them, that is affordable and doesn't put them right back into the position of needing assistance? Any solution you put in place for child care will have people complaining "why are they getting discount/free child care, when I have to pay?"

If you don't have the unskilled jobs, do you have the educational assistance to get them the skills they need in order to compete for skilled jobs? Any solution you implement will have people complaining "why are they getting educational assistance, when I had to go into debt for $100,000 to go to school?"

Our government doesn't owe everyone a job. And we don't owe families affordable or free daycare.

But if you feel that our government and the rest of the working taxpaying public owes the unemployed or underemployed segment of the population jobs, then we have to be allowed to force them to not to have children they have no idea how to pay for raising properly and for them to put some effort into their grade school years.

I'm tired of people who float through life without any hard thought as to how to make ends meet, and who think that their god will take care everything. And those people are the ones who always thank their god for any good fortune they get, instead of thanking the rest of us hard working people for making those free handouts possible.

Again, don't have children if you can't afford to raise them. Raising your children is NOT my problem, especially when I have chosen not to have children myself.

America's greatness has come off the backs of those who worked hard both physically and mentally. Slackers are just parasites sucking the goodness away. And having too many worthless parasites will kill the host body.

[JacksonPanther]

Originally Posted by miu

Our government doesn't owe everyone a job. And we don't owe families affordable or free daycare.

I didn't say the government owed anyone anything!

This entire thread has evolved into a discussion about people on public assistance and what they should be entitled to purchase with their benefits. We then started talking about how to reduce the number of people on assistance.

If you don't want to reduce the number of people on assistance, then we can continue doing what we are doing now. If you DO want to reduce the number, I welcome your ideas. The rest of your posting was a rant, but without solutions.

[Makolly]

Originally Posted by Bruins_Fan

So quick to dictate what the poor can and can't do.

When it's on the taxpayers dime, YES!

Welfare abuse is rampant in MA. I have seen it firsthand and it's disgusting. I am sick and tired of carrying all of the deadbeat welfare rats on my back. I am not saying that we should do away with welfare/public assistance altogether but it needs major reform and there needs to be a clear message and strict guidelines as to who can utilize it and why and for what period of time. There need to be rules in place about what is required by recipients to work towards getting them off of it. I am all for helping people out when they legitimately need it but I do not condone helping those who are too lazy to help themselves. Welfare should be a last resort, not a lifestyle.

As far as the woman who refuses to take EBT cards as payment, she is a business owner and is free to determine what form of payment she will accept. EBT cards should be for necessities, not pies. It's no secret that a vast majority of people on welfare are overweight, which means when Joe Porkchop on MassHealth has a heart attack from all of the crap food he eats, we foot the bill again.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by annerk

here in Florida we have stand your ground laws. Our crime rates are down as a result.

Florida is one of the most violent states in the country (this article by HuffPo says it's the 4th most violent, although it ranks 9th in terms of violent crime). I wouldn't consider that a ringing endorsement of the stand your ground laws. In fact, many studies, including this one, show that those laws tend to increase the occurrence of violent crimes.

For the record, I fully support gun ownership (grew up with guns); but I'm not really a big fan of Stand Your Ground.

[massnative71]

Glad to finally see some logical arguments coming from both sides here. The way I see it, public assistance is a safety net meant to provide the minimum needed to live on (no luxuries, that stuff you must earn the money for some other way). If you take that minimum and subtract a pie or two and then the latest iphone with a data plan and all, you are now left with less than the minimum needed (theoretically). If they buy a pie and still have enough left over to meet their family's nutritional needs, then that means we are giving them too much (more than the taxpayer can afford) and we therefore need to reduce the benefits. If one needs to treat their child to that special pie for their birthday, they can always do something like collect cans and bottles for an afternoon. The child will gain more from that than the pie itself.

As I've said in other threads (and a few mentioned here), we need to move away from a cash welfare system to a cashless one that focuses on actual needs. I'm totally for more soup kitchens, free/cheap daycare, second-hand clothing/phone/electronics/books distribution, etc. This would be much more efficient and helpful to the users than giving discretionary cash to spend.

[miu]

Originally Posted by JacksonPanther

I didn't say the government owed anyone anything!

This entire thread has evolved into a discussion about people on public assistance and what they should be entitled to purchase with their benefits. We then started talking about how to reduce the number of people on assistance.

If you don't want to reduce the number of people on assistance, then we can continue doing what we are doing now. If you DO want to reduce the number, I welcome your ideas. The rest of your posting was a rant, but without solutions.

That's exactly it. The EBT program shouldn't be consider free money for anything they feel like eating or drinking. It should go for the absolute essentials and not be bad for them. So no empty calories, no transfats or items loaded with sugar or fake sugar, or excessively high in other fats.

And I'm tired of people who get on these programs because they meet certain income guidelines, not because they really need them. The dollar goes farther in some parts of the US than others. And every poor person I know has a smart phone, so something is wrong with our system of handouts.

[dravogadro]

Originally Posted by miu

And every poor person I know has a smart phone, so something is wrong with our system of handouts.

That's because you can get one for free with a very cheap, basic plan through various services. These services were developed for persons experiencing homelessness.