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I work near the Alewife station, so Arlington would certainly be a great commute for me. Based on my limited knowledge of Arlington, I'll say that the Robbins Farm area is hot because it is in the Brackett school district. I've also driven around the Winchester country club area. This area of Arlington is certainly very nice. There's a lot more space, but houses are more expensive as well. I think once you get to the 700K range, much less people qualify, and people would be thinking of trying for Lexington or Winchester anyway.
I'm looking to stay in my current job for quite some time. I'm currently renting in Malden, and looking to find a house in a family oriented neighborhood to call my own, take roots, and raise kids.
I appreciate the comments about paying for a school district and suffering a long commute unnecessarily for the years before I actually have a kid to make use of the school system. If I buy a starter house now, with the expectation to move some years later, I probably would only pay ~400K, vs ~600K if I buy a "forever" house. With that in mind, I've run some numbers. The mortgage difference is close to 1K per month between the two. Adding on difference in property taxes, expenditure on gas for car on longer commute, heating a larger house, etc., I think I could save at least $15K per year if I buy a 400K house. I also like to do some investments, and my returns have been fairly reasonable and consistent over the years, so these $15K could be put to that usage. Another intangible benefit would be that I save on commute time, thus having more time and energy towards my job and family. Fast forward 5 years and I might be looking at a big sum of $100K which is more than enough to pay for the costs of changing house, provided that housing prices and interest rates haven't hiked up so much at that time.
But if I buy now in a less than desirable school district, I will definitely move once my kid is KG or elementary ready. Is selling and buying a headache? to adhere to that debt to income ratio that mortgage lenders look at, and to raise cash for down-payment. I'll probably also be less inclined to upgrade the house if it's not a "forever" house.
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Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk
See what you qualify for with a 15 and see if you can make it work.
I wouldn't qualify for a 600K house if I went with a 15 yr mortgage. Does people have a rule of thumb for price of house to buy vs gross income? The conventional 3 times gross income (equals $350K in my case) doesn't really buy anything here in MA. I'm also thinking about what is the "right" amount of cash to have as balance in the bank, after paying for down-payment?
I'm also setting a very bar with regards to schools. I'm looking at the top 100, out of 800+ elementary schools in MA. Do you all think this is realistic? My wife and I grew up poor, but fortunately we've had opportunities for (what we believe) very good education. If I'm willing to lower my bar to say the top 25% of elementary schools, then perhaps a third alternative is for a 500K house, but I cannot guarantee that years down the road, I won't be itching to move to a top 100 area. :-)
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Originally Posted by Cato the Elder
I would buy more long term for a number of reasons.
Cato, why would you buy more long term? Also, was Lynnfield one of your candidates back then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by donewithpretty
I was in your situation in 2008. My husband and I looked in towns like Arlington and Belmont but couldn't find a house that we liked or that didn't have major problems. Ultimately, we bought a nicely renovated single-family in Medford Hillside, and the commute to Cambridge is very easy and short.
Donewithpretty, was school district one of your considerations when you decided on Medford? Would you be moving? Btw, my wife and I love Medford, for its good restaurants (haven't explored other aspects of it yet! We've moved to MA for less than a year.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by brightdoglover
I lived in Arlington and worked normal business hours in Lowell, and it was a great drive and location.
Wow. Lowell's about 22 miles north of Arlington. But I suppose it's because you are reverse commuting.
Donewithpretty, was school district one of your considerations when you decided on Medford? Would you be moving? Btw, my wife and I love Medford, for its good restaurants (haven't explored other aspects of it yet! We've moved to MA for less than a year.)
Like everyone else, I was looking for a good school district at first. But I wasn't willing to make the necessary compromises (moving far away from Davis Square or living in a tiny, dark house with structural weirdness) because I knew I couldn't live in a house like that long term anyway, so my kids would never benefit from the schools.
We chose to buy in Medford Hillside because we had rented in the area previously, so we already knew we liked it. That turned out to be a great decision -- we're close to friends and all of the stuff we like to do, and commute time is less than a half hour to Lechmere or Harvard Square.
If you don't know which areas you like, I don't think it's a good idea to buy, regardless of schools or reputation. As an example, I used to think Arlington or Belmont would be my ideal place, but having rented in Belmont for a year and spent a ton of time in Arlington, we are no longer interested in either town.
As for spending $600k on a $120k salary, I wouldn't even consider that. The 1:3 income to mortgage ratio is not undoable! A $360k mortgage plus $70k down payment means you can comfortably afford a $430k house someplace like Melrose. You should probably plan on spending an additional 10% for closing costs, minor repairs or changes to the house, new furniture, etc.
I can see your point about wanting to put down roots in a town where you can stay long-term, but you don't need to buy to do that. Renting in Newton, as an example, is way more affordable than buying right now. If you find out that it's the wrong town, at least you have the option to move and try again.
Would you be willing to take the commuter rail to North Station, then take the green line or EZ ride bus to North Cambridge?
If so, you open up a lot of options north of Boston, especially on the Gloucester/Newburyport line.
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The OP said he works near Alewife, so I don't know where the Green Line would come in. Sounds like a very long start to the day to me.
Yes, when I drove the 22 miles from Arlington to Lowell at normal business hours (actually, a bit later, as I am absolutely not a morning person) I didn't like needing a car that much,having lived in-town for so long, but as a driving commute, it was very easy.
The OP said he works near Alewife, so I don't know where the Green Line would come in. Sounds like a very long start to the day to me.
Yes, when I drove the 22 miles from Arlington to Lowell at normal business hours (actually, a bit later, as I am absolutely not a morning person) I didn't like needing a car that much,having lived in-town for so long, but as a driving commute, it was very easy.
My husband and I are in similar situation as you. We grew up poor, but did well in school. We now make about $150K combined, but won't be having kids for another 3 years or so. We were looking for houses in the $375-$450K range (maybe $500K if we save enough), but more in the MetroWest area because one of us works out there and the other in Downtown Boston.
I don't know about only looking a the top 25% of schools in a list and hoping for the best. There are MCAS rankings, Boston Magazine Ranking, Best Schools 2012 and US News: Search Massachusetts High Schools | US News, and frankly take them all with a grain of salt. I would talk to your co-workers and friends who had recent experiences in the school systems you are considering purchasing a house in. I talked to a co-worker who sent her son through the Newton schools (US News ranked #11 Newton South /#36 Newton North) about ten years ago. He was in the middle of his class and she thought the experience was "meh" for them--the high school was really geared toward the super ambitious. Then my family friends' (Asian immigrants, who were not professionals/college educated) sent their daughter through Malden schools (US News ranked #52). She ended up being the valedictorian and had her pick between Stanford, MIT, and Harvard. I doubt her parents were reading books to her every night before going to bed, but they probably instilled in her a great work ethic and she did great. I know a friend who went through the now rather expensive town of Natick elementary schools more than ten years ago, and as a racial minority, she was relentlessly bullied. But I have Asian/Hispanic friends who recently sent their kids through Natick High (US News ranked #56) and they loved it. I know another couple whose child who was number 1 in Ashland (US News ranked #37)--the kid's heart was set on a New England Ivy League but the best acceptance letter was from Tufts (which is great, but the kid felt disappointed).
Basically, I'm saying before you buy in an expensive area with mainly the school reputation in mind, make sure you talk to parents who have or had kids in the schools. Elementary schools in the suburbs I feel are very similar, and it's easier for you as a parent to help them in English/Math/Science. It's eventually the high school grades that matter more. Boston Latin School (US News ranked #2) and Boston Latin Academy (#19) are both Boston Public Schools, but I have a hunch the parents of Westwood (US News ranked #20), Needham (#17), Brookline (#23), Wayland (#24), Arlington (#26), and Winchester (#29), and Concord (#32) would be too worried and a bit scared to send their kids through the Boston Public School system. I attended BLS. According to US News, BLS is #2 in Massachusetts and the opportunities it provides are genuinely amazing, but after six years I was pretty burnt out and miserable. I would say out of 350 of my graduating class (yes, we started with 600+ kids with high turnover) the top quarter of the class got into super prestigious and selective schools (Harvard, Amherst College), the middle into BC/BU/similar, and the rest into Umass/Northeastern/similar. In my book, that's pretty dang good and probably as good if not better than the Wellesley/Lexington/Brookline students. But you have to be a Boston resident and passed a highly selective exam to attend Boston Latin School or Boston Latin Academy. But you can get a house in Roslindale for $280K or West Roxbury for $375K. Yeah, the elementary/middle school bus thing is really a gamble though, so sadly, you might have to send your kids to private/parochial.
I know you're not just purchasing because of the schools alone (yes, it helps with maintaining property values), and you're buying into the whole town experience and quality of life. But you said education matters to you. So you have to ask yourself what you expect from your kids and how much time you will want to devote helping them. Do you want them to go to the super selective Harvard and MIT? Or are you just as happy if they go to Boston University or Northeastern? Or just as proud if they got a full scholarship to UMass Amherst? Are you going to give them a wider view of the world? Pay for extracurriculars? How about your family paying for college later? Do you care if all the other parents are professionals like you? Do you care about diversity? The list goes on...anyway, good luck!
Last edited by sharencare; 10-16-2012 at 07:17 PM..
My son attentended 3 different elementary schools in K, 1, and 2nd grade and another son attended preschools in very different towns - Revere, Melrose and Beverly. Luckily they were young enough to complain about moving so much and didn't seem to mind it - which we had to do frequently, because my husband was 'flipping' houses.
Much to my surprise most of the curriculum and teaching methods was identical - due to the fact that Massachusetts has a single set of standards for all public schools. Currently they are transitioning to a Common Core set of national standards, adopted by 46 states, which is more rigorous and tailored to compete internationally, developed in part by the best educators from Massachusetts, because it's #1 in education in the US.
Analyzing some test score numbers of different towns, based on subgroups - low-income, ESL vs. white non-low-income brought me to the conclusion that the best predictor of success as measured by the test scores is the background of the students. Towns with more homogeneous student populations are the best rated. Interestingly, the Asian subgroup tends to outperform white students.
That said, I think you should give more consideration to high schools, then elementary school, because that's where towns differ the most, and instead of ratings look at as many details as you can - clubs, sports, AP classes and extra programs will set them apart and paint a different picture.
However by the time your kids are 18 could be as long as 25 years from now. A lot will change before then. Ratings change all the time, some schools go down, and some new perfomers emerge. Just another reason not to rush with your decision.
I had a friend who went to middle school in Somerville which recently one bogus writer tried to argue had a so-so school system because all the young kids disappear from the local records after a certain age because their parents deemed the system not good enough and moved. Ahh, the econometrics on that doesn't make sense. Anyway, her family ended up in Lexington, but 15-20 years ago, the house cost $200K. Considering household wages haven't increased that much in the last 20 years, to pay $600-$800K for houses that are the same location and same size...I dunno, that seems rough for a new family with one main breadwinner. Look, she ended up with a PhD in computer science working for that err, famous search engine company. I say Lexington helped, but she got there by sheer hard work and brains. She said not every one of richer classmates did anything 'more special' with their lives than the middle class kids in the next town over.
I started this thread about half a year ago, seeking opinions on where I should buy a house given that I work in north Cambridge (near Alewife station). People have been very gracious with their suggestions, and I want to round this thread up by saying that my wife and I have recently bought a house in Winchester.
Throughout this 6 months, we've have various false starts, distractions (think less expensive towns but further away), and anxiety over many lost bids (it's a seller's market out there now, no doubt about it). But directions became clearer after going through all these, and it gradually became clear that Winchester is the right town for us, given its combination of commute distance, superior school system, ethnic composition, chinese activities in town, a real town center, population density, public transportation, distance to groceries (including the super88 in Malden), and walking space available.
Thanks again.
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