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Old 07-29-2013, 12:46 PM
 
5 posts, read 11,415 times
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Do you have any idea how the quality of education of a community college compares to top colleges? If my kids are smart enough to get into BU, or better yet, Harvard, do you really think I should tell them to head to the local CC instead to save money? Would they really be accepted into BU and Harvard again after 2 years of CC (even if they did, would BU and Harvard give credit for all the CC courses? Or would they still need at least 3 years to finish up all the graduation requirement, in addition to 2 years CC?). Similarly, is an online degree really worth the equivalent of a BU degree, say? Yeah, right.
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:57 PM
 
70 posts, read 185,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachcomber4 View Post
I'm well aware how much more expensive college is than when I went to school. As noted, I have 2 on that track. My post does apply because it's about CHOICES. It's about supply and demand just like housing. You have to think outside the box.


Just like people who don't want to choose overpriced homes, you don't have to choose an overpriced education. You completely disregarded online courses and community college. What is a year of community college? 4K? Heck Bridgewater State College- a 4 year school is 8K (18k to live there) but if you can commute, do that. I assume others are close to the same cost. That is completely doable for someone to work and go to school. One does not have to go to school full time either. Again, there are choices and alternatives. Just like you can buy the Campanelli ranch in Brockton to start out, you can start out at a less desirable college if you really want to go.
That's one school in the entire state. Like really? So your solution is to go to comm college and then a C-ish level state school? You do realize that school rankings, their rep, their Alumni all matter correct?

Bottom line, school prices are increasing at such a higher rate than salary. When you went to school it was FAR more balanced. Thats why when people earned their degree they didn't have 100k+ in students loans with a starting salary of 40k to pay off those loans.

Your answer is like, go to the cheapest/crappest school on earth, live in a 1 bedroom apartment with 12 of your friends, and make do. And if you do earn that degree with low debt (still more than your entire 4 year college tuition FYI) you get to earn an awesome starting salary of 30-40k, about 5-15k more than when you started back in 1990 or w/e.

Get real. Numbers don't lie. Starting salary increases 5-15k, cost of college increase like 40-50k.
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Old 07-29-2013, 02:38 PM
 
2,201 posts, read 5,331,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoveIL View Post
Do you have any idea how the quality of education of a community college compares to top colleges? If my kids are smart enough to get into BU, or better yet, Harvard, do you really think I should tell them to head to the local CC instead to save money? Would they really be accepted into BU and Harvard again after 2 years of CC (even if they did, would BU and Harvard give credit for all the CC courses? Or would they still need at least 3 years to finish up all the graduation requirement, in addition to 2 years CC?). Similarly, is an online degree really worth the equivalent of a BU degree, say? Yeah, right.
I absolutely do realize how they compare and yes BU and Harvard are far more prestigious than those I mentioned.

If you think it is a worthwhile investment then by all means send your child to one of those schools.

But those people who are crying about extreme debt and not able to afford to live in this state and defaulting on loans need to realize it was their choice. I know that without a Harvard degree- and BTW I did get into BU. I chose to go to a state college and not take on debt.
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Old 07-29-2013, 03:18 PM
 
2,201 posts, read 5,331,340 times
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Originally Posted by mhsclassof00 View Post
That's one school in the entire state. Like really? So your solution is to go to comm college and then a C-ish level state school? You do realize that school rankings, their rep, their Alumni all matter correct?

Bottom line, school prices are increasing at such a higher rate than salary. When you went to school it was FAR more balanced. Thats why when people earned their degree they didn't have 100k+ in students loans with a starting salary of 40k to pay off those loans.

Your answer is like, go to the cheapest/crappest school on earth, live in a 1 bedroom apartment with 12 of your friends, and make do. And if you do earn that degree with low debt (still more than your entire 4 year college tuition FYI) you get to earn an awesome starting salary of 30-40k, about 5-15k more than when you started back in 1990 or w/e.

Get real. Numbers don't lie. Starting salary increases 5-15k, cost of college increase like 40-50k.
I can not believe I am going to continue to debate with a person who uses the phrase "Like really?" in an argumentative essay and then puts down the state college system in Massachusetts.

Bridgewater State was just an example there is also Framingham State, Mass College of Liberal Arts, Worcester State, Salem State, Fitchburg State, Westfield State- I'm sure I forgot a a couple of the C-ish state schools that you find so reprehensible.

You are correct, numbers don't lie. Even people who go to prestigious schools,with staggering debt are starting out at entry level positions with lousy salaries or just can't find jobs. If alumni, reputation and school rankings was the be all and end all to a lucrative career we wouldn't be having this discussion would we?

Speaking of which, I know 2 girls who graduated with Nursing Degrees. One from Fitchburg State one from Emory. The girl from Emory took 18 months to find a job. The girl from Fitchburg had a job waiting for her after college at a hospital where she did part of her practicum. Not too shabby for a C-ish level college that cost 80K vs Emory at over $200K.


You are right, it was more balanced when I went to school. It was even more balanced when my parents did. Heck I wish my health insurance premiums were what they were back then too. But I realized all the complaining in the world wouldn't change anything. So yes, I went to the C-ish state school and took the crappy apartment in my 20's so I could live a better life in my now 40's. If you choose a different path, that's okay.

Again, it's about choices. No need to get angry. Go into debt and continue to complain about staggering debt and being "forced" to take student loans you couldn't afford OR think outside the box and find new ways to get where you want to get. You aren't willing to accept what you consider a crappy school and crappy apartment, that's okay. If you truly believe a top notch education will get you that top notch job right out of college, go for it. But don't complain about the life you have to live in order to pay off that debt.

And that goes back to my original point about the attitudes of many in Generation Y about housing. If you aren't willing to settle for a less expensive home to start out or an area that is not the most desirable, don't complain. Those before you often couldn't either. We were just willing to make sacrifices to get to the next level.

Last edited by Beachcomber4; 07-29-2013 at 03:35 PM..
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:03 AM
 
70 posts, read 185,181 times
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I agree with a lot of what you are saying, it is about choices. But just so we are clear we are having this debate because most people go to those C-Level schools and/or online degree mills, NOT because they go to top ranked schools. That is another thing that has changed. Back in the day a college degree meant something, now there are SO MANY schools offering degrees, some of which are complete BS type of online schools. Point is, those kids "earn" their "degree" that cost them a few grand and are shocked when they can't find work.

Now I will admit not everyone from a BU or BC type of school finds work. It depends a lot on the student, their degree, their networking, etc. But those schools offer more as far as connections/network than the C Level schools. Attend an even higher level school such as NYU, Harvard, MIT, and you're not searching high and low for jobs.

Just so you know, I joined the military after high school and ended up going to C Level school myself. Five of my other friends went to "good" schools. We're in our 30s now, and of course I earn the lowest pay (work for the Govt) but my other friends earn 160k up to about 220k. My friends tell me first hand how they were able to land their first jobs because of school alumni. To break down even more so, their schools have strong relationships with businesses. It's a win-win for both parties; the school can say they have a high placement % and the business understands the student has a strong education.

The one point I want to make again, is you seem to keep comparing yourself and when you were a college aged student to now, and that's just a good comparison. I've already showed why college costs shouldn't be compared, housing is a little common sense, and starting salaries also have increased at a rate of housing, college, or heath care for that matter.

So in other words, you had MUCH better than the college age kids have it now.

That still doesn't mean the 20 somethings shouldn't work hard, make choices, etc.
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:13 AM
 
16,433 posts, read 22,113,423 times
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Originally Posted by mdovell View Post

Technically speaking everybody rents, we just don't always call it that. If a owner does not pay property taxes eventually the town will take the property. They might not want to but it is still done.
Very correct.
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Old 07-30-2013, 06:29 AM
 
5,774 posts, read 5,060,754 times
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"I can not believe I am going to continue to debate with a person who uses the phrase "Like really?" in an argumentative essay and then puts down the state college system in Massachusetts."....

Hahahaha! Best zinger in the whole debate!
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Camberville
15,790 posts, read 21,302,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachcomber4 View Post
Actually talked to a friend. I misspoke. Starting teacher salary in 89 was high teens to low 20's. The job I took in management was for 25K.

I'm not out of touch. You are an example of what people should be doing. You did what you HAD to do to get a job. But you also learned the hard way that top university and bilingual does not mean you will get the job which is why it's not prudent to go into crazy debt for college.

I am sorry you had to work that hard and go through chemo for cancer and I do hope you are healthy now. Don't get me started on the exorbitant cost of health care in this country. I give you a tremendous amount of credit.

It isn't easy. But a quick search on Craigslist and I found many apartments for $600-$750 a month. You are right, they aren't in the best area but neither were mine or many other people my age. Coupled with student debt however, it's nearly impossible to afford to live on your own. But that's the point. Going into crazy debt for college is a bad investment. And to blame the generations before for that choice, preventing them from getting into the housing market is absurd.
I graduated from college debt free - earned a full tuition scholarship and worked through college to pay for study abroad, books, room and board. My frustrations come from general wage stagnation. My only debt is a car payment (which I only bought because of my illness) and at this point, higher cost of living due to medications and appointments.

Those $600-$750 apartments are with roommates. In the 3 years I have lived with roommates, I've lost thousands of dollars thanks to people skipping out on their leases (jointly responsible - it's very difficult to find apartments where each person rents individually), not paying for utilities, checks bouncing, not moving in at the last minute, stealing, etc. I've had to even seek legal action against a former roommate. All the vetting in the world doesn't necessarily keep someone from being a horrible person - and since I'm responsible, I end up being the one out of money (despite generally being the least able in a household to afford it).

I'm looking out at Acton, Maynard, Sudbury, etc for those elusive affordable apartments. They're just not there, especially when you factor the commute into it. I'm not willing to put more than 30% of my income into housing, which means I won't be able to rent without roommates for years, nor will I likely ever be able to afford a home. And again, I feel like I'm doing better than the average 25 year old, minus the whole cancer thing.
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Old 07-31-2013, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Norman, OK
3,478 posts, read 7,228,688 times
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How did a topic about the lack of buying real estate turn into a debate on the validity of a state school vs. a 'prestigious' university? But hey, I'll add a comment - I believe that, much like the current divide on the benefits of homeownership between older and newer generations, we will start to see a big difference in attitude about a person's college choice, likely because of necessity (younger parents cannot afford the staggering costs of these 'prestigious' schools). The bottom line remains - you make your career, not your piece of paper or your school.

Anyways, back on topic - I am certainly one of these Generation 'Y' people that continues to rent in lieu of purchasing property. That doesn't mean I don't have a desire to do so - I just don't feel it is a 'necessary' step in life. I think that is a big difference in attitudes. Plus, the way careers are structured now, people will be moving around jobs a lot, which likely means physically moving as well. It doesn't pay off to have a $350K house when there is a good chance you will be working somewhere else in 5-10 years.
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Old 07-31-2013, 12:41 PM
 
17 posts, read 36,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
I graduated from college debt free - earned a full tuition scholarship and worked through college to pay for study abroad, books, room and board. My frustrations come from general wage stagnation. My only debt is a car payment (which I only bought because of my illness) and at this point, higher cost of living due to medications and appointments.

Those $600-$750 apartments are with roommates. In the 3 years I have lived with roommates, I've lost thousands of dollars thanks to people skipping out on their leases (jointly responsible - it's very difficult to find apartments where each person rents individually), not paying for utilities, checks bouncing, not moving in at the last minute, stealing, etc. I've had to even seek legal action against a former roommate. All the vetting in the world doesn't necessarily keep someone from being a horrible person - and since I'm responsible, I end up being the one out of money (despite generally being the least able in a household to afford it).

I'm looking out at Acton, Maynard, Sudbury, etc for those elusive affordable apartments. They're just not there, especially when you factor the commute into it. I'm not willing to put more than 30% of my income into housing, which means I won't be able to rent without roommates for years, nor will I likely ever be able to afford a home. And again, I feel like I'm doing better than the average 25 year old, minus the whole cancer thing.
There might be another option if you're patient enough to invest some time looking. It sounds counterintuitive, but you might want to look in more affluent towns at "off the books" units. They're not as common as places like San Francisco, but there are plenty of empty nesters in towns such as Lincoln and Concord with garden/in-law units, often in a carriage house out back. They won't/can't advertise on Craigslist or newspapers. You need to join local discussion boards, clubs, etc. to find out about them.

What's in it for them? They get some company and happily accept help with basic chores such as gardening and putting the garbage out front. They're typically looking for modest-income young people with socially conscious lifestyles - teachers, social workers, university staff, seminary students, etc. It's not for everyone and it's more difficult these days with a declining sense of decency and people acting like kids into their 40s, but opportunities still exist.

My parents live in a different metro and they regularly rent out their garden unit to the right person at a great price. They don't need the money so they never actively look, but people always come knocking through word of mouth.
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