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Old 08-28-2013, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Needham, MA
8,525 posts, read 13,910,379 times
Reputation: 7908

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribechamy View Post
Part of this whole debate is a culture thing inherent to where we live, in the Boston area. The housing stock is older and a lot of metro areas are built out, so there isn't a lot of room for new construction to begin with. So newer construction homes tend to be crammed in, either replacing a cape/ranch in a neighborhood of capes/ranches and looking out of place or squeezed into a plot of land that used to be the yard of the house next door, or else a bunch of them pop up at the same time in what used to be somebody else's scenic vista - shrinking woods or farmland. So that's where some of the derision comes from - it's not always about what is there so much as what *used to* be there and the visual shock of seeing green space (whether wilderness or the space between houses) shrink.
Absolutely! Some towns just don't have zoning which creates a lot of large acre+ lots so if you want a big house you have little choice but to build it on a smaller lot. I'd say no town has seen more of the tear down phenomenon than Needham (at least on a per capita basis). The average lot size for a tear down in this town is about 10,000 sq ft (0.23 acres). To some, it may look ridiculous to have a 4,000 sq ft home on a lot this size, but in our town it's very much become the norm. I've seen whole neighborhoods transformed from small ranches to large colonials. On the rare occasion that a larger lot pops up they are often subdivided (when zoning allows) so that builders can put up more than one house. I remember a number of years back one really large lot in an acre zoning area was eventually subdivided into three lots and two additional homes were built. In these situations, empty nesters are replaced often by young families with multiple children. The town has really been transformed in the last 20 years or so. Needham is a particularly interesting example because there are few older expensive homes in this town. Not too long ago, it was a bit of a mill town and didn't have anywhere near the cache of a Newton or Wellesley.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyHoney View Post
(Uh-oh, now I'm quoting myself, too, MikePRU! )
It's weird isn't it?
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Old 08-28-2013, 02:24 PM
 
17 posts, read 36,797 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scriptkitten View Post
More than an architectural style, the term "McMansion" also speaks to the general culture of American consumerism. We all need bigger and bigger homes, cars, toys.... We can no longer make do with a modest lifestyle. Families are forced to stretch themselves too thin, work too many hours, kids get the shaft, communities lose their heart because everyone is too exhausted just keeping the bills paid. Hey, I'm as guilty as everyone else, trust me, but it doesn't mean I don't recognize a problem when I see it.
I think this is more accurate. It's not primarily about style. One can easily have a Tudor style McMansion or even a mid-century McMansion (yes, I've seen plenty, typically on gut jobs with heinous 2nd and 3rd floor additions that don't fit roof lines and scale).

To me, McMansions are houses that should have been scaled back 20-30%, not necessarily because of lot size, but because of quality, fit, and finish. McMansions are about adding as much square footage and perceived grandeur as possible on a particular budget - laminate floors, hollow doors, cheap fixtures, etc. - but it's new, big, and grand! So one saves on expenses by going with a builder who plays Tetris with blueprints and uses bulk purchased fixtures. The good news is that it buys you a three story foyer and jetted tub in return. There are plenty of showy homes that aren't McMansions, but they will cost more.

McMansions are faux-classic in that they typically don't age well since majors draws are their newness and fads of the day. They typically occur in places where land is cheaper and a builder can develop an entire neighborhood. You don't find these conditions too often in metro Boston until you get outside 495. You see them littered on former farmland in places like NJ, Midwest, and South.
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Old 08-28-2013, 02:32 PM
 
42 posts, read 110,482 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyWW View Post
...It's gone from a neighborhood, to now some kind of corporate soul-less bedroom community...

...I always think, the people who buy McMansions must have no appreciation of architecture, or design...

...I doubt there's anyone with a sense of design, or history, who would buy one of those things....


Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyWW View Post
BTW, I get that McMansions are very, very popular in some circles, & they don't care about what I or Scriptkitten are talking about . (End of rant--but hey I've had this McMansion phenomena in my face on a daily basis for a lot of years now).....
sorry for your loss?...
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Old 08-28-2013, 02:47 PM
 
42 posts, read 110,482 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucephalas View Post
To me, McMansions are houses that should have been scaled back 20-30%, not necessarily because of lot size, but because of quality, fit, and finish. McMansions are about adding as much square footage and perceived grandeur as possible on a particular budget - laminate floors, hollow doors, cheap fixtures, etc. - but it's new, big, and grand!
I think that is a fair and well-stated assesment. And while those exist, I think that people often make assumptions that most or all newer large homes have laminate floors, hollow doors, and cheap fixtures when in fact some don't. Then they're all grouped into a category based on a sterotype that if it's large and new it must be cheaply built, and it puts them at odds with older or smaller homes.
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Old 08-28-2013, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Needham, MA
8,525 posts, read 13,910,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyWW View Post
I live in one of those expensive towns near Boston. In my neighborhood, it's now about 60-70% McMansions. I think the reason people call them that, is that most of those houses have no real sense of architectural style, or design. And most of them look alike, you can barely tell one from another. I'd say that goes for the McMansion owners too. Most of them don't associate much with the "old timers" (like me) with the tear-downs, or even with the other Yuppies from what I can tell. It's gone from a neighborhood, to now some kind of corporate soul-less bedroom community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyWW View Post
--but hey I've had this McMansion phenomena in my face on a daily basis for a lot of years now).....
It says in your profile that you live in Lexington. The only town I can think of which in recent history has had anywhere near as many tear downs as Needham is Lexington. Lexington still has (perhaps had) some undeveloped land more recently and I've seen entire subdivisions go up in that town. Personally, I'd rather see new subdivisions than tear downs. When you demolish a smaller home it makes the town less affordable and less economically diverse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyHoney View Post
I think that is a fair and well-stated assesment. And while those exist, I think that people often make assumptions that most or all newer large homes have laminate floors, hollow doors, and cheap fixtures when in fact some don't. Then they're all grouped into a category based on a sterotype that if it's large and new it must be cheaply built, and it puts them at odds with older or smaller homes.
Builders will do whatever they can get away with doing. 99% of the new construction houses I walk into have those lights from Home Depot which are $20 a piece. You've probably seen them. They have the glass dome with the little metal piece at the bottom that screws the dome in place. Things like Pergo floors and hollow doors might fly in Shrewsbury but you'd never get away with that in Wellesley. I often see builders come into this area from further out west or south and they put cheap stuff all over the house they're building. It usually sits on the market until the price is significantly reduced.
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:26 PM
 
Location: MA
675 posts, read 1,689,541 times
Reputation: 929
Quote:
Originally Posted by missionhill View Post
This has become a fascinating thread and I'll read more carefully when time allows. Wanted to respond to this point: many imposing Victorian and Gilded Age houses were built on small city lots, very close together, but still with side and back yards. You find these throughout the old suburban ring, or what was considered suburban in the 1880s-- so, Cambridge, Brookline, Roxbury, Jamaica Plain, Dorchester. Many other Victorian houses--the typical Brownstones of New York or the brick bowfront houses of Boston were built right next to each other with no grounds at all. It's only in late 20th century/early 21st we've adjusted to the new norm of a big house on a big lot--or even a not-so-big house on a big lot.
Yes, that is true in those communities closer to Boston, I was thinking a bit farther out in what used to be gilded age vacation homes on the north shore, south shore, and central and western-ish MA - even exotic locations like Medford (Brooks Estate - Medford, Massachusetts (M-BELT))! Most dramatic examples would be like The Breakers (The Breakers | Newport Mansions, yes RI but still local) and The Mount (The Mount (1902) | Historic Buildings of Massachusetts) but there are other homes with decent sized grounds over 100 years old which, unlike the above examples, might be for sale.

I was reflecting today on the McMansion term - I think a lot of why the term is used so much and disputed is that, like a lot of popular slang it's kind of fun to say so it sometimes is overused or inappropriately used. I've read someone referring to Deval Patrick's home in the Berkshires (http://www.boston.com/realestate/gallery/0727deval/) as a McMansion. Nnnope, that's a mansion, nothing Mc about it. But nobody uses "mansion" anymore to describe anything smaller than Versailles, particularly if it's their own home, so here we are - we all live in houses, the other guy lives in a McMansion. It's funny, homes like the House of Seven Gables (The John Ward House (1684) | Historic Buildings of Massachusetts) and the "King Hooper Mansion" in Marblehead (The King Hooper Mansion (1745) | Historic Buildings of Massachusetts) are technically mansions for their time (1684 & 1745 respectively), but neither look much bigger some 20th & 21st century suburban homes.

(Incidentally, the http://mass.historicuildingsct.com site is a great read if you're interested in seeing the history of architecture in New England and how things have evolved)

This is an interesting topic! Impressed by how respectful everyone is, I'm running out of numbers of times I can give reputation ratings since I do it for so many of same people who are participating in this thread.

Last edited by tribechamy; 08-28-2013 at 05:39 PM.. Reason: added link
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:35 PM
 
Location: MA
675 posts, read 1,689,541 times
Reputation: 929
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePRU View Post
It says in your profile that you live in Lexington. The only town I can think of which in recent history has had anywhere near as many tear downs as Needham is Lexington. Lexington still has (perhaps had) some undeveloped land more recently and I've seen entire subdivisions go up in that town. Personally, I'd rather see new subdivisions than tear downs. When you demolish a smaller home it makes the town less affordable and less economically diverse.

Builders will do whatever they can get away with doing. 99% of the new construction houses I walk into have those lights from Home Depot which are $20 a piece. You've probably seen them. They have the glass dome with the little metal piece at the bottom that screws the dome in place. Things like Pergo floors and hollow doors might fly in Shrewsbury but you'd never get away with that in Wellesley. I often see builders come into this area from further out west or south and they put cheap stuff all over the house they're building. It usually sits on the market until the price is significantly reduced.
Amen to everything you wrote, but the thing about the lights makes me giggle. Our entire 2nd floor has those lights, installed by a previous owner, and maybe it's because I'm a nursing mother but my first thought was, "Why do our upstairs lights all look like breasts?"
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Needham, MA
8,525 posts, read 13,910,379 times
Reputation: 7908
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribechamy View Post
Amen to everything you wrote, but the thing about the lights makes me giggle. Our entire 2nd floor has those lights, installed by a previous owner, and maybe it's because I'm a nursing mother but my first thought was, "Why do our upstairs lights all look like breasts?"
When I was writing that post I originally had the lights described as "the ones that look like nipples" but I thought it best to describe them in another way.

I have them in my house too. I was actually the one who bought them and installed them. They're unbelievably cheap lights but for a hallway, a closet, or a laundry room . . . who really cares? They look OK, they work well, and in those areas I'm not going to break the bank for a light fixture. Plus, they look a million times better than the 1986 light fixtures that were there when I bought the house.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:49 PM
 
42 posts, read 110,482 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePRU View Post
When I was writing that post I originally had the lights described as "the ones that look like nipples" but I thought it best to describe them in another way.

I have them in my house too. I was actually the one who bought them and installed them. They're unbelievably cheap lights but for a hallway, a closet, or a laundry room . . . who really cares? They look OK, they work well, and in those areas I'm not going to break the bank for a light fixture. Plus, they look a million times better than the 1986 light fixtures that were there when I bought the house.
WTH? Somebody, please post a picture. Lights that look like nipples? I'm having a hard time picturing that...not that I don't know what nipples look like, but...

edit: wait, does that sound creepy that I want to see a picture?

Last edited by SunnyHoney; 08-28-2013 at 07:50 PM.. Reason: I think I sounded creepy..
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
6,301 posts, read 9,588,263 times
Reputation: 4797
Sunny, is this the style of home you have in mind?

A newer construction home that looks well thought out and comfortable to live in:

3 Chadbourne Road, Lexington MA - Trulia

I'm picturing some fabulous entertaining happening there.
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