Anywhere in Eastern MA like Northampton? Help! (Boston, Worcester: real estate, renting)

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by 495neighbor

Maynard is rapidly becoming the grown up version of Somerville with more trees.

Funny you put it that way. Both couples I know that bought in Maynard both lived in Davis Sq for years.

[snatale1]

I'd say stick with Northampton. I used to do a lot of work in that area, nice place. Don't forget when you move to Western MA, you don't need as much money. Depending on how much of a raise they're throwing at your wife, it could just be wiped out by staying in the Boston area. Housing cost are one of MANY that are higher in Eastern MA.

Also, "Racial Diversity" in real life equals lower income places with more crime. People can call it stereotyping but that's the way it is. Also goes hand in hand with crappy schools.Even if your a multiracial couple, who cares who ELSE lives there? Worry about your family, not others.

Also, not all Conservatives are sitting in their basements wearing foil hats! Western MA is going to have a lot more of them! Their newpaper is called the Republican you know! LOL. I'm a Libertarian but the left probably thinks that's the same thing as a Con, either way judge people based on them, not a label. I'd think you'd understand that one greatly!

Good Luck with whatever your choice is, Western MA is a great place.

[semiurbanite]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Funny you put it that way. Both couples I know that bought in Maynard both lived in Davis Sq for years.

Interesting. Our neighbors, a young family moving from the midwest, were told the same while house shopping 2 years ago. They looked at Maynard, said there was nothing there and the downtown was dead, and bought in Somerville. There must be something to it though, i'll have to drive through there some time.

[wolfgang239]

Originally Posted by semiurbanite

Here you go - MCAS for non-low income students
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1O...it?usp=sharing

Thank you.

I wonder how much this particular statistic (controlled for income) should influence someone in their decision to choose schools. How does it help?

Per the link, if you have a daughter at SPS they are 14x more likely to fail grade 3 reading than someone's daughter in Lexington! Might want to rethink Somerville if you have a daughter...


Reminds me of watching the Sox and hearing

"First time a Red Sox player wearing number 34 batted a double on a Friday!"

[semiurbanite]

Originally Posted by wolfgang239

Thank you.

I wonder how much this particular statistic (controlled for income) should influence someone in their decision to choose schools. How does it help?

Because it is a commonly known fact among education experts that SES is what drives student achievement more than anything else. I think the takeaway is that choosing a good school is not as easy as looking at a website that is based on MCAS scores. The school or town, statistically, makes little difference once you control for income. MCAS therefore correlates to socio-economic status (SES), and we can prove that by controlling for income and comparing scores.

And lets face it - higher income families leave the city for Lexington and Wellesley for the schools under the assumption that their kids will get a better education.

Using the non-low income threshold is not perfect for controlling for income, but it's the closest have in the MCAS data.

Where are you getting that 14x number?

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by snatale1

I'd say stick with Northampton. I used to do a lot of work in that area, nice place. Don't forget when you move to Western MA, you don't need as much money. Depending on how much of a raise they're throwing at your wife, it could just be wiped out by staying in the Boston area. Housing cost are one of MANY that are higher in Eastern MA.

Also, "Racial Diversity" in real life equals lower income places with more crime. People can call it stereotyping but that's the way it is. Also goes hand in hand with crappy schools.Even if your a multiracial couple, who cares who ELSE lives there? Worry about your family, not others.

Also, not all Conservatives are sitting in their basements wearing foil hats! Western MA is going to have a lot more of them! Their newpaper is called the Republican you know! LOL. I'm a Libertarian but the left probably thinks that's the same thing as a Con, either way judge people based on them, not a label. I'd think you'd understand that one greatly!

Good Luck with whatever your choice is, Western MA is a great place.

But they already said they need to live an hour away from Boston. It's not just for the money, it's also a career advancement.

my wife was offered a promotion that's quite difficult for us to turn down. It would mean a lot more money, and some serious career advancement for her. The problem is, we would have to stay in the Boston area (or at least within an hour's drive) for her to take it.

Northampton is okay but there are places in EMass that are pretty good too for what it offers. They don't want to live in a city, they don't want to live in a boring suburb either. I know one thing, after having lived my entire life up until ten years ago in WMass, the weather out here in EMass is a lot better. Believe it or not it's true. The schools in Northampton aren't that great either. Northampton is not a utopia. But it's not all about schools either because lot depends upon the individual child and the upbringing. As long as you have a fairly decent school system, a smart and motivated kid will do just fine.

I still think some place around Newburyport, like Amesbury, would be a good fit.

[wolfgang239]

Originally Posted by semiurbanite

Where are you getting that 14x number?

Somerville district wide is 14% for females grade 3 reading, Lex is 1%.


I just think removing the low income students kind of voids the "diversity" argument. Also, the schools you chose in Somerville happened to be the top scoring districts in the most expensive side of town. Depending on your needs it can cost more to get a place in Davis than one in Lexington!


Once you start looking at students as they approach the HS level the numbers start tipping more steeply in favor of Lexington and the like. I don't want to derail this thread any more than I have but I have to point out that you chose the top performer in a particular grade and particular year. What if there is a lousy math teacher in 2010? If you look at trends in the higher grades I think things become more clear. I'd rather have my kid fail reading in 3rd grade than 10th, Athol or Arlington. It isn't as simple as percentages adjusted by income level.

[semiurbanite]

Originally Posted by wolfgang239

I just think removing the low income students kind of voids the "diversity" argument.

Then you are missing my point here - it just allows you to compare to the top districts on a more meaningful level and it tends to void the case for moving the the suburbs for school. My child is in the Kennedy school, one of the best things about going there is the diverse mix of kids.

Originally Posted by wolfgang239

It isn't as simple as percentages adjusted by income level.

Generally, the correlation is very close - across the country.

Originally Posted by wolfgang239

Once you start looking at students as they approach the HS level the numbers start tipping more steeply in favor of Lexington and the like.

Yep, makes sense, the younger families in elementary school are higher income than the families with kids in high school even though both are non-low income - the result of rapid gentrification. The non-low income families in Lexington are probably higher income than the non-low income families in Somerville too.

My point here is simple - everyone assumes certain towns have the "best" schools, completely unaware of the demographics that are creating this impression.

[kingeorge]

Originally Posted by semiurbanite

Because it is a commonly known fact among education experts that SES is what drives student achievement more than anything else. I think the takeaway is that choosing a good school is not as easy as looking at a website that is based on MCAS scores. The school or town, statistically, makes little difference once you control for income. MCAS therefore correlates to socio-economic status (SES), and we can prove that by controlling for income and comparing scores.

And lets face it - higher income families leave the city for Lexington and Wellesley for the schools under the assumption that their kids will get a better education.

Using the non-low income threshold is not perfect for controlling for income, but it's the closest have in the MCAS data.

Where are you getting that 14x number?

That is all fine and dandy if you assume that data is more important than reality, and that your kid will go to school in some sort of well-to-do bubble and will not be mixing with lower income kids, nor be influenced by their low income peers. That is not what happens in the real life and your data in that regard is actually meaningless.

Peer influences and what teacher can actually teach and accomplish in the class is the most important factor. Public schools cater to lowest common denominator (as in No Child left Behind) and your kids will not learn as fast, or as advanced, as e.g. their peers in Lexington do, because "playing filed" is not even out.

This is why most parents look for "highest common denominator" possible. It does make for much more pleasant and successful learning environment.

Many parents tired this before, only to learn, as their kids age, why majority of families seek environment of like-minded parents with similar socioeconomic standing. Good luck.

[semiurbanite]

Originally Posted by kingeorge

That is all fine and dandy if you assume that data is more important than reality, and that your kid will go to school in some sort of well-to-do bubble and will not be mixing with lower income kids, nor be influenced by their low income peers. That is not what happens in the real life and your data in that regard is actually meaningless.

Peer influences and what teacher can actually teach and accomplish in the class is the most important factor. Public schools cater to lowest common denominator (as in No Child left Behind) and your kids will not learn as fast, or as advanced, as e.g. their peers in Lexington do, because "playing filed" is not even out.

This is why most parents look for "highest common denominator" possible. It does make for much more pleasant and successful learning environment.

Many parents tired this before, only to learn, as their kids age, why majority of families seek environment of like-minded parents with similar socioeconomic standing. Good luck.

Actually, I attended schools much like the ones in my neighborhood and not only does the data I posted show that you are essentially incorrect, my own experience corroborates what the data says. Feedback from parents of older students here generally corroborates the same. I will say though, that there are elementary schools I would not put my kids in, even here in Somerville. The mix needs to be right, and when it is, you end up with the best of both worlds - diversity along with achievement without having to live in the sheltering bubble of suburbia. The lowest common denominator argument simply does not show up in the data. Partly because it doesn't matter in the younger years, and in the middle school years the kids are grouped by ability. In High School, as long as they take the honors and A/P classes, again same thing...

The parents that "flee" these days are usually doing it for space more than for the schools.