Winter Driving - is all wheel drive necessary?

[BostonMike7]

Originally Posted by scorpio516

Not quite true. For this discussion it is though.

RWD tend to oversteer. FWD understeer. AWD do both. AWD Family haulers - i.e. Hondas, Toyotas, Fusions, etc - are built to understeer, but in some conditions, they'll oversteer too. AWD performance cars -BMW coupes/sedans, Porsche 911, etc - are built to oversteer. Under the right conditions, they'll understeer too.

Basically, AWD is the worst of both worlds - you get all the bad habits of a FWD car AND all the bad habits of a RWD car for more off the line traction.

But off the line traction is good - I've turned 1.6 60's on street tires in an AWD car. 1.6 are impossible on street tires on a FWD or RWD car, there isn't enough traction, you need drag radials or slicks to start that fast with 2 wheel drive.
And AWD cars make for interesting doughnuts. Most of them rotate around the COG instead of camping out on the front or rear wheels.

I think you took my statement a little too literally and out of context to the content of this thread.


I wasn't referring to pulling a 1G turn at Nurburgring. My statement was pertaining to creeping down the road at 15MPH in a blizzard and trying to come to a stop when someone pulls out in front of you.

[scorpio516]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

I think you took my statement a little too literally and out of context to the content of this thread.


I wasn't referring to pulling a 1G turn at Nurburgring. My statement was pertaining to creeping down the road at 15MPH in a blizzard and trying to come to a stop when someone pulls out in front of you.

True, but the limits of adhesion are much lower in the winter. Take a corner too fast for your tires in a blizzard, you'll understeer into a tree, or you'll oversteer into a tree, depending on lots of things, but drivetrain layout is a big one Snow tires do make the limits much higher! Summer tires, the limits might be 15 mph, with snows you could safely take the same corner at 40 mph.

[G-fused]

Ultimate (IMO) is AWD w/good winter tires and a manual transmission. But really, AWD is mostly useful in conditions such as getting going from a dead stop or when moving very slowly and needing to pick up speed (i.e. traction). Once your on the move with ok speed AWD isn’t as useful. Throw in a manual transmission and you have even more control.

I’ve had all kinds of cars. Much of it is knowing how to drive in the snow and how to handle and take turns with RWD vs. FWD. We currently have a Forester (AWD and good ground clearance) w/ a manual transmission (I’ve owned nothing but manuals for the past 15 yrs and it’s become a deal breaker to get an automatic, which makes car shopping tougher) – no problem getting through anything this past winter. Other cars were getting stuck in the same places that we were easily able to get through.

I wouldn’t consider the mini. Get a car that’s better – just throw a rock and whatever car it hits will very likely be better. I'd throw my rock directly at the Impreza 5 speed manual and change out the tires in the winter. Best of luck.

[GeoffD]

Pretty much any car will be OK with modern friction tires. With that kind of a commute, tire life is a pretty big deal. The Bridgestone Blizzak is the best friction tire on the market. It has fantastic grip and very good black ice performance which is critical in the Northeast. The problem is that amazing grip goes away at about 12,000 miles and it becomes a very average tire. With infinite money, I'd run Blizzaks and swap them when the outer rubber coating wears off. Nokian makes a friction tire that is almost as good and will easily live for 30K miles. I've coaxed 45K out of them. With that much driving, I'd also consider Nokian's all season tire called the WR G2. You'll mostly be driving on black pavement. You'll get the wear of an all season tire and pretty good snow and black ice performance.

I winter at a ski resort. I've had 4WD/AWD since the mid-1980's and owned VW GTI's as my daily driver. For southern New England highway driving where the plowing is typically pretty good, FWD and good snow tires is fine.

My last VW GTI had a DSG transmission with paddle shifters. I have a new Outback with CVT and paddle shifters. My last batch of SUVs all had conventional automatics. If you're aware of that PRND32L thingie and use it, an automatic works just about as well as a manual transmission for snow driving. Unlike a 5,000+ pound SUV that wants to go straight no matter what you do with steering or braking inputs on a slippery surface, a Mini is going to be quite predictable since it's so much lighter. The only time it will be funky is driving on slush since it has such a short wheelbase. My GTIs with Nokian or Blizzak snow tires were always better than my SUVs with snow tires on plowed/snow covered roads unless I was driving in wet slop.

[Cape Cod Todd]

AWD will help you out year round and give you better traction.

I don't think it is absolutely necessary to get a 4x4 or AWD car but you do need to learn to drive in the mess.

We have a JeeP Wrangler 4x4 and it drives my wife crazy when it is slippery out and I don't put it into 4 high. I like the challenge of navigating safely and trying to get it into the driveway.

Remember nothing will start or more importantly STOP you on ice and black ice is the worse since you can't see it so you need to be careful and drive defensively.