Burlington vs Melrose school district (Boston, Cambridge: 2014, house prices, employment)

[495neighbor]

Originally Posted by Ninotchka P

IMO Melrose has always been overrated in terms of its "feel". Never have I seen such a mid-level middle class town put on such airs.

Ninotchka, what is your basis for making this statement. I'm curious.

[Beantown_mama]

Originally Posted by such sweet thunder

Beantown_mama,

Are you aware of why Melrose High School generally receives middling marks from the various ranking sites? It feels like Melrose should fair much better considering the general feel of the town, and how well some of its primary schools seem to perform.

Is there something that isn't being accounted for in the metrics (are they just junk)? Or are there particular reasons why Melrose High School only passably serves its students? Do you see things as changing over time for the town?

Thanks!

I agree that Melrose is probably where Arlington was 15 years ago. It has traditionally been a working class town with a lot of socioeconomic diversity - a a very large part of the population was very blue collar (like surrounding communities like Saugus) and that is slowly changing as new families move in. Also, it is completely residential and so the tax base comes from families, and the tax base is not that high compared to other high end communities that depend on residential taxes for funding. For whatever reason, Melrose traditionally didn't invest a lot in its schools - teachers have been underpaid and the schools were underfunded. However, in the past 10 years or so the new Mayor has really been focusing on the schools - renovating the Middle School and 2 elementary schools, renovating the high school and the playing fields etc, and most importantly, giving the teachers a new contract with more money. So it is kind of a chicken and egg thing - as the schools improve, less of the people in the higher socioeconomic status will send their kids to private schools, so the Melrose schools will test better, so more people will send them, etc. etc. Also, more people will start demanding better standards for the schools and funding of the schools too - which is why in the past few years the town established an Education Foundation, and also there is an override on the table for more $$ for the schools. So slowly, as the schools improve, more people are sending their kids to the Melrose schools instead of private schools and they are improving - but it started first in the elementary schools which is why their "numbers" are better, and it is beginning to happen at the high school too. The high school is now a Level 1 School, it has developed a more rigorous curriculum and it has gotten much needed renovations - I think that more and more people will be sending their kids to the high school too and the scores will improve as a result.

Sadly, socioeconomic status is the #1 indicator of educational outcomes. As Melrose continues to be a hot community, and richer folks move in, the schools will improve as a result for that reason alone. But right now Melrose is still not Lexington or Winchester (which is something I personally prefer). I'm not sure what the previous poster meant by the town putting on airs - but this is actually something I would disagree with - a lot of people (like myself) moved to Melrose because they didn't want to live in a community like Lexington or Winchester with a million dollar buy in fee, and live in Melrose because your neighbor could be an electrician or a post-doc or a million different things - so not everyone was necessarily a doctor or a lawyer who drives a BMW. It is a really wonderful town with a lot of diverse people and a ton of services for what is essentially a pretty low tax base. The mayor has done a wonderful job improving the look and the feel of the town, and it is paying off as it is one of the hotter communities to live in right now.

Hope that helped!

[Beantown_mama]

Originally Posted by BostonCollege

Thanks! B, R and G
I wonder why burlington real estate market is not as hot as surrounding towns! Lack of commuter rail maybe?

I think that Burlington doesn't have public transit access, and if you work in Cambridge or Boston (and many do), it can be a tough commute. Also, I think that many people see Burlington as the Burlington Mall and don't realize there is a really cute little town behind it. But the schools are definitely making Burlington a popular place to live and I am sure that the real estate market will heat up (as it already has started to).

[robr2]

Originally Posted by Beantown_mama

I think that Burlington doesn't have public transit access, and if you work in Cambridge or Boston (and many do), it can be a tough commute. Also, I think that many people see Burlington as the Burlington Mall and don't realize there is a really cute little town behind it. But the schools are definitely making Burlington a popular place to live and I am sure that the real estate market will heat up (as it already has started to).

The comment about the MALL is true. That's what people know and it almost kept me from buying my "3 year house" here 20+ years ago. And here I am in the section of town the furthest away from the mall area and IMHO, it's great.

As for transportation, Burlington has limited public transit. There are the 350,351,352 busses that go to Alewife and downtown, the B-Line with limited daytime services that really caters to a slim maket, and the Wilmington commuter rail station.

[3cents]

I often see comments that Melrose schools are good. I have to respectfully disagree and would very much welcome contradictory evidence to change my viewpoint.

Out of 888 elementary schools in MA, schooldigger ranks Melrose elementary schools as:
Herbert Clark Hoover : 194th
Horace Mann : 288
Lincoln : 133
Roosevelt : 180
Winthrop : 134

I had seriously considered Melrose, and had almost bidded on 2 houses. But I realized Melrose isn't a lot cheaper than other towns, e.g. Arlington. Also, the houses in Melrose are often built in 1920's whereas you'll normally find 1950s houses in other towns.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by 3cents

I often see comments that Melrose schools are good. I have to respectfully disagree and would very much welcome contradictory evidence to change my viewpoint.

Out of 888 elementary schools in MA, schooldigger ranks Melrose elementary schools as:
Herbert Clark Hoover : 194th
Horace Mann : 288
Lincoln : 133
Roosevelt : 180
Winthrop : 134

I had seriously considered Melrose, and had almost bidded on 2 houses. But I realized Melrose isn't a lot cheaper than other towns, e.g. Arlington. Also, the houses in Melrose are often built in 1920's whereas you'll normally find 1950s houses in other towns.

That isn't good? They're in the top 15-33%, and that isn't good? The top quarter or third of one the best state public school systems in the country?

[Beantown_mama]

There are over 940 schools in the state according to the Boston.com MCAS rankings. So these results are pretty good. Obviously not as good as Winchester but again, there is a big difference in the socioeconomic status of those two towns. I think that if you are an involved parent, your child will do well in any of the districts that are in the top quarter to third in this state. Depending on the personality of your children, they may even do better than some of the towns that have pressure cooker school systems. Some kids thrive in that environment, others don't.

Melrose was one of the first commuter towns of Boston - that is why it has many train stations (3 commuter rail stations and the Oak Grove T). So of course the houses are going to be older. I think most houses are actually even older than the 20's - there are many turn of the century (as in, 1900's) Victorian houses in Melrose. So if you are looking for newer housing stock (although I wouldn't call 1950's that much better in respect to housing construction or newness ), then you should probably look further out from the city where there are more new housing developments.

[Parsec]

Originally Posted by timberline742

That isn't good? They're in the top 15-33%, and that isn't good? The top quarter or third of one the best state public school systems in the country?

Overall that's pretty good, but if you take out all the small cities like Fitchburg, Brockton, Lowell, etc then Melrose is probably middle of the road out of the towns that remain. I think 3cents was saying he disagrees with such sweet thunder and Ninotchka P when they said Melrose is a mid-level middle class suburb with middling school ratings.

[495neighbor]

Originally Posted by 3cents

I often see comments that Melrose schools are good. I have to respectfully disagree and would very much welcome contradictory evidence to change my viewpoint.

Out of 888 elementary schools in MA, schooldigger ranks Melrose elementary schools as:
Herbert Clark Hoover : 194th
Horace Mann : 288
Lincoln : 133
Roosevelt : 180
Winthrop : 134

I had seriously considered Melrose, and had almost bidded on 2 houses. But I realized Melrose isn't a lot cheaper than other towns, e.g. Arlington. Also, the houses in Melrose are often built in 1920's whereas you'll normally find 1950s houses in other towns.

The smaller Cape and bungalow style homes built in the 1920s often had better construction than 1950s slab homes.

Given our educated population in this state, top 15-25% would still be very good school ratings.

[BostonCollege]

Originally Posted by 3cents

I often see comments that Melrose schools are good. I have to respectfully disagree and would very much welcome contradictory evidence to change my viewpoint.

Out of 888 elementary schools in MA, schooldigger ranks Melrose elementary schools as:
Herbert Clark Hoover : 194th
Horace Mann : 288
Lincoln : 133
Roosevelt : 180
Winthrop : 134

I had seriously considered Melrose, and had almost bidded on 2 houses. But I realized Melrose isn't a lot cheaper than other towns, e.g. Arlington. Also, the houses in Melrose are often built in 1920's whereas you'll normally find 1950s houses in other towns.

Hey 3 cents

Thanks for the list. Can you provide the rankings for Burlington elementary schools as well? I am not able to download it from the site free. Thanks