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I'm not denying that there are a lot of people in Eastern, MA that are entirely unfamiliar with Western, MA. However, it goes both ways. I've met people from Western Mass. who have never heard of New Bedford. I know it's not an epicenter, but it is one of the largest cities in the state.
I also think that it's pretty common in most states for the rural/remote areas to feel disconnected from the urbanized/metro regions. I went to college in Maine. The "rift" between Northern and Southern Maine is infinitely more pronounced than Western/Eastern MA. People up there felt like there should be two separate states. Check out posts in the NH forum re: Northern NH and Southern NH. Same for Connecticut- SW CT is, in their minds, a different world from SE CT. I lived in DC for a while and the people in "NoVA" were viewed as not even being a part of the rest of the state. Jersey's divided heavily between metro NYC and Philadelphia. It just really isn't much different from any other place.
The most extreme and well known are probably NYC area versus Upstate New York, and Chicagoland versus Downstate Illinois. A very hate/hate relationship in those areas.
Yeah, another person that doesn't have a clue. For every place that closed another has opened, or more than one generally. They're different types of spaces, and far more intimate.
And Springfield does have some nice roots. Was at Woodland Park Conservation Area and Forest Park this Saturday. Some great houses near Forest Park. It would be great if that city could rebound, but don't hold your breath.
With respect to Boston yes other clubs have opened up but it isn't the same scene as it was in the past and not the same vibe. The costs of doing anything in boston are just so high that it drowns it out.
Can you picture something like this in a club today
Probably not. Independent TV died out and yes there is youtube but that isn't exactly the same. The phoenix also died out. What ultimately changed can be described as the death of mass culture. There was a time when people read the same books, listened to the same music (local bands and radio), same tv and movies etc. Well the internet changed that. You don't need to be tied into a place specifically physically. This is where a high cost structure makes it much harder to justify doing things. Don't get me wrong it's great that all the sports teams (except the revs) have won. But the prices went up and the student population is assured so it isn't really contributing to diversity. Boston didn't pass the community preservation act and lost an estimated 300 million in the past 15 years. They didn't allow drug store clinics to open up unlike the suburbs etc. The addiction to do things "big" neglected the smaller things. Menino was nice don't get me wrong however there was quite a bit swept under the rug due to the low crime rates and economic expansion in the 1990's onward.
"Springfield = Hartford CT"
Not quite. Although Hartford "feels" larger than springfield that's mostly accountable due to the fact that it is the state capital. Springfield has 153,000 people and hartford I believe 125,000. Having said that there's a HUGE difference between hartford and west hartford
It's obvious. The income is 4x as much in west hartford.
CT has issues and frankly it is almost like they are a separate countries. Springfield and Hartford are sometimes like two siblings copying each other. Casino, Ballpark, convention center etc. I think Hartford does have a better control of their water front and food trucks but that's about it. Springfield is much cleaner than Hartford in terms of graffiti. Go to hartford after say 8PM and look around at closed store fronts. They are usually tagged. You might also find tube tv's in front yards just sitting there. Springfield found out the hard way what state receivership was like whereas Hartford didn't. I read on the CT forum that Governor roland 15 or so years ago lost 220 million investing in Enron and didn't get it back after the bankruptcy. That's quite a bit to make up.
As the CT forum mod said quite a few posts back, Hartford is making a comeback. And of course, West Hartford is a totally different ballgame, a separate city of its own, an upscale place to live.
I don't see much of a future for Springfield, unfortunately. A casino? They used to have a lot of trouble from the mob and this will just intensity that negative influence. Springfield used to have culture--like the library on State St with the Augustus St. Gaudens statue of The Puritan, and the museums in back, called the quadrangle. The stately homes on Maple St, probably gone now or in disrepair. The beautiful and forever lost downtown.
Forest Park is still there and better than it was several years ago. They've cleaned it up, restored it, and they charge admission now to keep the druggies out.
I wish it could become a true city again, the type of city where you could feel safe, could spend an enjoyable afternoon at the city library and museums, go shopping, eat at a restaurant, take in a concert--but I can't see that happening. The most I hope for is that the library area will remain as it is. Last I heard some idiots wanted to move The Puritan to Stearns Square (where it was originally, probably 100 years ago). Put it there for no good reason and let a valuable work of art become vandalized like so much else they're tried to do in Springfield.
Maybe Hartford will really make a comeback. I think CT is more homogeneous than MA, especially since reading on this thread the comments by EMass people. CT is mostly the same throughout except for Fairfield Country, which is like a piece of NYC. There are different areas--like rural eastern CT and the more well heeled CT shoreline, the formerly industrial areas in the middle of the state--but mostly they all know about each other and discuss topics as a state, not as different regions.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Originally Posted by mdovell
With respect to Boston yes other clubs have opened up but it isn't the same scene as it was in the past and not the same vibe. The costs of doing anything in boston are just so high that it drowns it out.
No, the Sinclair is not the same as The Channel. But no place stays the same.
Did I love to go to ManRay? Sure, but things change. That's ok. They shouldn't stay the same. The basement scene here is raging.
As the CT forum mod said quite a few posts back, Hartford is making a comeback. And of course, West Hartford is a totally different ballgame, a separate city of its own, an upscale place to live.
I don't see much of a future for Springfield, unfortunately. A casino? They used to have a lot of trouble from the mob and this will just intensity that negative influence. Springfield used to have culture--like the library on State St with the Augustus St. Gaudens statue of The Puritan, and the museums in back, called the quadrangle. The stately homes on Maple St, probably gone now or in disrepair. The beautiful and forever lost downtown.
Forest Park is still there and better than it was several years ago. They've cleaned it up, restored it, and they charge admission now to keep the druggies out.
I wish it could become a true city again, the type of city where you could feel safe, could spend an enjoyable afternoon at the city library and museums, go shopping, eat at a restaurant, take in a concert--but I can't see that happening. The most I hope for is that the library area will remain as it is. Last I heard some idiots wanted to move The Puritan to Stearns Square (where it was originally, probably 100 years ago). Put it there for no good reason and let a valuable work of art become vandalized like so much else they're tried to do in Springfield.
Maybe Hartford will really make a comeback. I think CT is more homogeneous than MA, especially since reading on this thread the comments by EMass people. CT is mostly the same throughout except for Fairfield Country, which is like a piece of NYC. There are different areas--like rural eastern CT and the more well heeled CT shoreline, the formerly industrial areas in the middle of the state--but mostly they all know about each other and discuss topics as a state, not as different regions.
The mob died out here in 2006..literally. Make no mistake though there are gangs here. Latin Kings and Hell's Angels supposedly are working together. There's some others that are not totally up to that. There's some fake bloods and crips but that isn't something for people to joke around with.
Uh the library on state street (I'm assuming you mean central library) is still there by the museums along with that statue. I don't know how you can say "used" to when the museums never left and a 5th is coming (Dr. Suess).
Forest park kinda charges admission. It's admission if you drive in. Anyone else can walk or bike in at no charge. That lowered the chances of people driving in with drugs.
To be frank I do feel safe here. How? Because most of the violence is gang members fighting each other. If you aren't in a gang that eliminates quite a bit. The other thing is frankly I'm not going out at 1AM at a two family house party with three families in it. Security systems are the norm. People come here all the time for events. Pepper spray no longer requires a mass FID card and that is when some of it creeped back. Now you have to assume that people are armed and they can record you. There's cameras all over the place and shot spotter pretty much assures they know where there were gunshots. Combining cameras, dna, apps etc and frankly criminals can't get away with that much anymore.
The last public housing building (70 Carew St) is being worked on. the rest is market rate. Prices are going up. This has the potential to be the next Providence. Providence back in the
This is the cheapest city in Mass for the most part (well relevant to size and population) Since the housing laws are changing from a local to a state list and union station is being finished by the end of January it's going to export quite a bit of poorer people away from the area. Springfield is gaining jobs while the closing of the Yankee plant in VT and CT layoffs are adding up. Transit makes this transfer faster. Construction firms are coming from all around the state and region to get work here. If things were that bad we would see this.
"No, the Sinclair is not the same as The Channel. But no place stays the same.
Did I love to go to ManRay? Sure, but things change. That's ok. They shouldn't stay the same. The basement scene here is raging."
Perhaps but you also have to remember back in the day there was happy hour. Now there isn't and that's in the whole state. Even if things are the same the costs are just so much higher. Sometimes when there were cheaper things to do it kept other people at bay. Remember dog racing? Raynham park might not have been the classiest place in the world but someone could pretty much bet..maybe win and end up with some free lunch or it could be dirt cheap. Now that's gone. All things being said the traffic in the boston area keeps getting worse and eventually organizations will think of a way around it by either going closer to their stakeholders or vice versa. The rail extension for the commuter rail to Worcester might help with this.
Uh the library on state street (I'm assuming you mean central library) is still there by the museums along with that statue. I don't know how you can say "used" to when the museums never left and a 5th is coming (Dr. Suess).
Because I was referring to how we USED to feel safe and it was enjoyable.
Except for Forest Park, I haven't set foot in Springfield in over twenty years. Last time was at a store, trying to buy something and some guy started to run off with something. The employees all ran after him, people had guns--no thanks.
But every time people on here start saying that Springfield is getting better, it gives me hope. Mostly we never hear anything at all. If the mob is REALLY gone, that's a great thing. I'm not so sure about that, though. Many times, it was supposedly gone but they were still in operation behind the scenes.
Uh the library on state street (I'm assuming you mean central library) is still there by the museums along with that statue. I don't know how you can say "used" to when the museums never left and a 5th is coming (Dr. Suess).
Because I was referring to how we USED to feel safe and it was enjoyable.
Except for Forest Park, I haven't set foot in Springfield in over twenty years. Last time was at a store, trying to buy something and some guy started to run off with something. The employees all ran after him, people had guns--no thanks.
But every time people on here start saying that Springfield is getting better, it gives me hope. Mostly we never hear anything at all. If the mob is REALLY gone, that's a great thing. I'm not so sure about that, though. Many times, it was supposedly gone but they were still in operation behind the scenes.
Well some I've talked to actually miss the mob. Basically saying that they didn't stop crime but they tended to police things by themselves, pretty much vigilante justice.
Make no mistake there are some things that need to be fixed or replaced. Springfield might take over the Dunbar community center. I'm mixed on this. It might be a nice building but the problem is the city has already taken over many Catholic church owned properties. If it starts to take over community centers it could spiral. There should be some type of a non profit stress test like the way how the central bank did with smaller banks. If they were to have a 5-30% drop in revenue, drop in stakeholders, rise in energy prices, labor prices etc how would they respond.
Other things are changing that are going to lower crime around the world. Increased use of debit/credit cards, use of cellphones/decline of payphones, GPS mapping along with wayfinding. Less people being lost, less with actual cash etc.
If you really want to know what the city will look like these are the finalized plans of which that everything is based off of.
Uh the library on state street (I'm assuming you mean central library) is still there by the museums along with that statue. I don't know how you can say "used" to when the museums never left and a 5th is coming (Dr. Suess).
Because I was referring to how we USED to feel safe and it was enjoyable.
Except for Forest Park, I haven't set foot in Springfield in over twenty years. Last time was at a store, trying to buy something and some guy started to run off with something. The employees all ran after him, people had guns--no thanks.
Two decades is a long time. I understand that over that time Springfield has largely gone downhill. However, do you believe that you'd still feel unsafe today? I ask because it's highly subjective. I also lack the perspective since I hadn't been to Springfield two decades ago. I can't compare. But I don't feel unsafe at Springfield Museums at all today. I think the downtown area is a bit of a shell (with great bones) but not particularly scary, There are some decent pockets (I love the buildings along Federal Street here) and there are pockets of town where I've felt unsafe. I'd be interested in hearing your perspective.
Two decades is a long time. I understand that over that time Springfield has largely gone downhill. However, do you believe that you'd still feel unsafe today? I ask because it's highly subjective. I also lack the perspective since I hadn't been to Springfield two decades ago. I can't compare. But I don't feel unsafe at Springfield Museums at all today. I think the downtown area is a bit of a shell (with great bones) but not particularly scary, There are some decent pockets (I love the buildings along Federal Street here) and there are pockets of town where I've felt unsafe. I'd be interested in hearing your perspective.
First, thank you, mdovell, for all that information. It looks possible that Springfield could make a comeback. I'd love to see those old homes on Maple St restored. It used to be a beautiful sight to come down the hill and see those great old homes. So sad to see that they fell into disrepair.
Irfox, Not as safe as I used to feel. I haven't been back and I wouldn't go back unless I knew I could feel safe and unless I knew that I wasn't going to see a city in shambles like I did last time I was there.
Every time they used to erect statues or try to restore anything (I think they tried to fix up something on Worthington St one time) it would all be vandalized and destroyed.
For the most part, everything I used to love--like Johnson's Bookstore, Steiger's, Forbes's and all the rest of the downtown area is gone forever. Still if the buildings are there, maybe sometime other businesses could take them over. Different stores, new restaurants. But the last time I drove through that area it was with my in laws and a lot of prostitutes came up to our car. That sort of thing gives me the creeps and along with the theft and ensuing chase in a store, I have never gone back again.
I have gone no further into Springfield than Forest Park recently and that was only because someone on here said it had undergone a renewal. It is GORGEOUS now! The same places where we used to go skating and have family picnics, where the men used to lawn bowl and the boys played baseball, where there were lagoons with real lotuses, the Barney Mausoleum--it's still there. There are still flower gardens and green lawns. This is one of the most beautiful parks anywhere, imho. Some was destroyed when they put in rte 91 but most is still there and better than I ever remember.
There aren't very many places better than Forest Park on a sunny afternoon, lying on a hill on a blanket, taking it all in. It was designed by the famous landscape designer Frederick Olmsted who designed Central Park in NYC and it's a real treasure.
Best of luck to Springfield. I truly hope it does make a successful comeback.
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