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Old 07-25-2016, 08:03 AM
 
3,808 posts, read 3,102,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
Mass has a good system but the NRA sees it as restrictive but I see it as weeding out many who would be up to no good. Of course criminals don't care one bit about any laws.
You're missing my point. MA voters support further gun restrictions like middle class whites support Trump - it's a middle finger to a system they feel is broken. 1/3 of the guns recovered during a crime investigation originate from NH and ME (according to 2013 stats), states which better represent the NRA's preferred fire arm policies (i.e., few). It would be naive to think that MA voters aren't responding to the NRA's influence in other states, including our polarizing neighbor NH.

Healey's position aligns with the populist opinion because MA voters aren't forming an opinion of gun ownership based on MA's responsible approach. They're looking at states where gun culture has reached a level of absurdity fueled by the ridiculous notion that "Obama and the DNC are going to take your guns". Listening to the rhetoric, it is hard to believe that in 1967 Reagan uttered the words “There’s no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons,” and went on to support the Brady bill. This is what Healey and MA politicians are pandering to - a counter balance to the modern far right rhetoric. It's an ideological split which isn't resolved by digging a deeper trench.

My suggestion to gun owners is not to cry tyranny in the face of liberals, but to instead force the NRA and fellow gun owners to take a moderate stance.

I'm waiting for society to find a "great moderation" but it appears as though impartial and objective thinkers are as rare a breed.
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Old 07-25-2016, 08:20 AM
 
1,203 posts, read 1,803,086 times
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Just as many liberals are unwilling to bend on issues (abortion is one that comes to mind) many libertarians and conservatives are unwilling to bend any more on gun rights. We've been bending and taking it hard for decades. No more! We have hundreds, if not thousands of gun laws in this country. I'm will not support any more. Not a one. So we'll have to agree to disagree. I will continue to fight the good fight, and will even continue to financially support MA groups like GOAL and Comm2a even after I leave Massachusetts to help my fellow gun owners that remain stuck in such an awful state.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
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Old 07-25-2016, 08:41 AM
 
15,692 posts, read 20,198,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
The Massachusetts law banning those dates back to 1994. All the AG has done is state that the state will be enforcing that law.



The problem with this is that simple fact that the law dates back to 1994 as it's a direct mirror of the federal AWB. From day 1 of that ban, manufacturers have had compliant rifles at the ready, and have been sold that way in MA for what? nearly 30 years? In that time, there was plenty of opportunity by the entire nation to say "oh wait a second, we are interpreting this law wrong" but no, that was never done until 2016 by one state. 7 others have an AWB as well, none interpret it this way. I know that has no bearing on MA, but it seems for 30 years everything was ok. So what has changed?


Lets take a step back and forget about the fact that this topic is about guns. think about something near and dear to you and lets focus on that. Gay marriage, abortion, etc. What if laws were drafted up 30 years ago saying you can do this, or cant do that surrounding your topic of choice. Now all the sudden, one person decides the law was interpreted wrong and many people who thought they were doing something legal for the last 30 years wake up and discover they are now felons for doing so.


On top of that, you aren't directly granted amnesty for what you did while it was technically legal. You have a 1 sentence "promise" that you won't be prosecuted.


MA sold 10K of these things last year. Over 30 years that's a lot of rifles sold. What happens to these people?


I think that's the bigger deal that will get challenged in court. Can you interpret a law one way for 20 years or so, and then change it on a whim without notice, public debate, or legislative input? I believe challenges in the legislature have already been issued, and this will get debated in court...which will drag on for a few years now.


But, in the meantime, Healey has accomplished her mission. No new rifles are being sold (preventing the next inspired nightclub shooting??) , and those who have them are afraid to take them into the light of day due to being branded a retroactive felon.

Last edited by BostonMike7; 07-25-2016 at 08:57 AM..
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Old 07-25-2016, 08:42 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,724,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruins_Fan View Post
Just as many liberals are unwilling to bend on issues (abortion is one that comes to mind) many libertarians and conservatives are unwilling to bend any more on gun rights. We've been bending and taking it hard for decades. No more! We have hundreds, if not thousands of gun laws in this country. I'm will not support any more. Not a one. So we'll have to agree to disagree. I will continue to fight the good fight, and will even continue to financially support MA groups like GOAL and Comm2a even after I leave Massachusetts to help my fellow gun owners that remain stuck in such an awful state.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
You have? How? Seems like gun laws have just become more and more permissive, not less. Can't think of any significant gun restriction at all.
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Old 07-25-2016, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Rhode Island
9,221 posts, read 14,776,802 times
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Can someone be specific about what they are imagining will happen where they need repeating automatics?

What scenarios are you imagining are going to happen in Massachusetts that the police and National Guard can't handle???

I would like to know what you are thinking and why and how you think you would use such weaponry. I'm honestly curious.
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Old 07-25-2016, 08:54 AM
 
3,808 posts, read 3,102,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruins_Fan View Post
Just as many liberals are unwilling to bend on issues (abortion is one that comes to mind) many libertarians and conservatives are unwilling to bend any more on gun rights. We've been bending and taking it hard for decades. No more! We have hundreds, if not thousands of gun laws in this country. I'm will not support any more. Not a one. So we'll have to agree to disagree. I will continue to fight the good fight, and will even continue to financially support MA groups like GOAL and Comm2a even after I leave Massachusetts to help my fellow gun owners that remain stuck in such an awful state.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
As I've stated previously, if you think this state is "awful" I implore you to move to a state which better suites your ideology. I don't say this in a the dismissive sense - I'm dead serious as this state's ideological position on progressive values clearly does not align with your own. NH is far more libertarian and will welcome you with open arms ... just make sure you avoid the coastal towns where the libs hang.

If a civil war breaks out I'll be sure to update my opinion. In the interim, I'll continue to enjoy my rare trips to the range where the currently array of legal fire arms offers plenty of "sport".
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Old 07-25-2016, 08:56 AM
 
15,692 posts, read 20,198,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollytree View Post
Can someone be specific about what they are imagining will happen where they need repeating automatics? .

These guns aren't automatic. Those have been highly regulated and controlled for decades. You pretty much can't legally own a automatic firearm without jumping through massive, and expensive ($10-20K+), hoops.
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Old 07-25-2016, 09:03 AM
 
3,808 posts, read 3,102,154 times
Reputation: 3332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollytree View Post
Can someone be specific about what they are imagining will happen where they need repeating automatics?

What scenarios are you imagining are going to happen in Massachusetts that the police and National Guard can't handle???

I would like to know what you are thinking and why and how you think you would use such weaponry. I'm honestly curious.
Of my small local sampling size, it seems the average AR owner has an "end of days" mindset. Some men take a depressive view and drink too much, others melt their credit card with AR accessories.
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Old 07-25-2016, 09:35 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,724,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollytree View Post
Can someone be specific about what they are imagining will happen where they need repeating automatics?

What scenarios are you imagining are going to happen in Massachusetts that the police and National Guard can't handle???

I would like to know what you are thinking and why and how you think you would use such weaponry. I'm honestly curious.
These aren't automatics. Still, I can't imagine needing this. Skeet shooting is fun, even went bird hunting a couple of times, not my thing but I see the appeal... but stuff like this? No good reason I can think of to need to be firing off one after another after another after another...
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Old 07-25-2016, 09:59 AM
 
15,692 posts, read 20,198,574 times
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Ok lets pause for a second before this turns into a debate over the type of firearm in general. The pro, and anti angles for AR's and similar firearms has been debated for a long time. Nobody is going to convince anyone to change their mind. You either like them, or not. So lets not waste the breath.

Lets instead focus on HOW this was done, and the way the laws on the book were reinterpreted. The statement "We are just enforcing the law that is already written" is a bit misleading. The law has always been enforced. It's just been enforced a different way. These guns have always been sold like this, and previously two AG's and federal govt' (under the federal AWB that the MA ban mirrors) didn't have a problem with it. Wasn't a secret, and it mirrored the federal ban in which these rifles were considered 100% legal for 10 years under that ban. MA simply removed the sunset clause. The MA AWB specifically identified what an AW was by listing out various features and identified the firearm as an AW if it had those features. All the sudden, 30 years of federal interpretation, and 20 years of MA interpretation is wrong?

What happened here was the AG looked for specific wording to change the interpretation away from features, to method of operation. No laws were changed, and it's not like the previous law was not enforced at all. It was, it was just enforced differently, by MANY people. Healey's interpretation takes on the current populist view due to the rash of mass shootings, so many won't have an issue with it. But, you should still have issue with the manner in which it was done.

Lets use a different example. Many states still have sodomy laws still on the books that truly aren't enforced. Say for instance a very conservative AG gets elected and decided to scrutinize those laws and apply them to gay marriage. They issue a Op-ed stating that due to the new interpretation of existing laws on the book, after this date, anyone performing a gay marriage ceremony is committing a felony. Anyone who was married, broke the law, but "at this time" the AG won't be prosecuting them. They haven't changed any laws, they are merely "enforcing the laws on the books". Now, since no amnesty has been granted, whats to stop local police, and DAs from prosecuting? They haven't been officially told not to, and even though the AG has stated they won't prosecute, what's to stop a highly conservative police officer coming across a gay couple and deciding to arrest them for the retroactive felony they have performed, when they thought it was 100% legal.

Honestly, this sets a dangerous precedent. What it states is that any AG an come in, and reinterpret laws based on their own political ideologies and issues statements to change the way they were enforced. Don't fall for the "we've decided to enforce the laws on the books" statement as it's completely untrue. The laws on the books were interpreted a specific way for 20 years or so, and now one person has decided to change that interpretation and even apply it retroactively.

Put the subject of guns, and assault weapons aside for just a moment and think about that for a second.


This will get challenged in the courts for years.

Last edited by BostonMike7; 07-25-2016 at 10:14 AM..
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