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I agree. It's a difference of background and income (not necessarily level, but the means). I'll also be very blunt - southeastern towns like West Bridgewater seem to have a higher concentration of Irish/Italian Catholic working class types who welcome the alt-right aspects of Trump's campaign. I've overheard/seen some fairly overt racism in the area. The type of generational crap that refuses to die despite being 3-4 generations removed from the reality of AA's and immigrants competing for status/work.
Towns like Sterling are too homogeneous, educated, and socially progressive to fall into the alt-right trappings. While there were plenty of Trump signs around town, we were spared the "her lies matter" "drain the swamp" crap which seemed abundant in NH, northwest central, and southeastern MA. The Wachusett towns going red was largely a wallet vote.
I think that West Bridgewater took a high number of people from Brockton during the 1960-1980 period. The Irish numbers really drop as you head away from the coast for WB. When you reach WB then they are much lower. New Irish are not flocking to there. They are heading to Scituate. So, I would not think of a WB as part of the Irish region. Those Irish guys are everywhere in Eastern Mass, but they drop dramatically west of Worcester. The town that you mention does not have 75% Irish standing. Having 5 Irish guys in a town does not make it Little Ireland.
So, right off the bat I think that you are generating your hate post based on your made-up assumptions. I say Bravo to you. I think that it is not Irish people that say some of these things. I don't look at this as an honest and nuanced understanding of the population. Far from it.
I think that West Bridgewater took a high number of people from Brockton during the 1960-1980 period. The Irish numbers really drop as you head away from the coast for WB. When you reach WB then they are much lower. New Irish are not flocking to there. They are heading to Scituate. So, I would not think of a WB as part of the Irish region. Those Irish guys are everywhere in Eastern Mass, but they drop dramatically west of Worcester. The town that you mention does not have 75% Irish standing. Having 5 Irish guys in a town does not make it Little Ireland.
So, right off the bat I think that you are generating your hate post based on your made-up assumptions. I say Bravo to you. I think that it is not Irish people that say some of these things. I don't look at this as an honest and nuanced understanding of the population. Far from it.
Bill
There may not be a huge foreign born population there (7.5% according to the census), but these aren't the people I'm suggesting fall into the alt-right movement. The people I'm referring to are of 3+ gen working class Catholics (Irish-A, to a lesser degree Italian-A) who are still fighting a class struggle which has existed since the 1820's.
Noel Ignatiev wrote a very informative book, though dry and somewhat clumsy, which addresses this matter well titled "How the Irish Became White". I had him as a professor when attending college in Boston and he is far more grounded/reasoned than conservative media might suggest.
There may not be a huge foreign born population there (7.5% according to the census), but these aren't the people I'm suggesting fall into the alt-right movement. The people I'm referring to are of 3+ gen working class Catholics (Irish-A, to a lesser degree Italian-A) who are still fighting a class struggle which has existed since the 1820's.
Noel Ignatiev wrote a very informative book, though dry and somewhat clumsy, which addresses this matter well titled "How the Irish Became White". I had him as a professor when attending college in Boston and he is far more grounded/reasoned than conservative media might suggest.
I have that book on hand. I know very well about the Catholics and their lack of understanding in basic christian concepts. Ask someone about the trinity. Or ask them about a sacrament. A lack of understanding in regards to Christian concepts is a commonality among them. However, saying that they are racist while English are not...it implies implicit racism.
Anyways, there are not many Irish in West Bridgewater. If you went to the area, then you see a lot of English, French, Italian, Portuguese, Caribbean, Brazilian, etc. It is not 75% Irish Catholic. The Irish population is 20% at the most. You picked a town that is infamous for nothing being part of the Irish diaspora in so much as Rockland is.
I have that book on hand. I know very well about the Catholics and their lack of understanding in basic christian concepts. Ask someone about the trinity. Or ask them about a sacrament. A lack of understanding is a commonality among them. However, saying that they are racist while English are not...it implies implicit racism.
Anyways, there are not many Irish in West Bridgewater. If you went to the area, then you see a lot of English, French, Italian, Portuguese, Caribbean, Brazilian, etc. It is not 75% Irish Catholic. The Irish population is 20% at the most. You picked a town that is infamous for nothing being part of the Irish diaspora in so much as Rockland is.
I have that book on hand. I know very well about the Catholics and their lack of understanding in basic christian concepts. Ask someone about the trinity. Or ask them about a sacrament. A lack of understanding in regards to Christian concepts is a commonality among them. However, saying that they are racist while English are not...it implies implicit racism.
Anyways, there are not many Irish in West Bridgewater. If you went to the area, then you see a lot of English, French, Italian, Portuguese, Caribbean, Brazilian, etc. It is not 75% Irish Catholic. The Irish population is 20% at the most. You picked a town that is infamous for nothing being part of the Irish diaspora in so much as Rockland is.
Your opinion is not holding well.
Bill
We're going to have to agree to disagree. I implied the Bridgewaters going Trump was, in part, due to a persistent working class catholic culture which has historically supported ideas of classism based on color. I do not believe most are practicing Catholics, nor is it important. What is important is that their father's father's father was persecuted for being a practicing Catholic and, generations later, these men are still fighting a misguided status war.
I'm very aware genealogy does not alone determine racial views, which is why I never stated that anglo culture is immune to racism - modern white nationalists are still pushing the agenda of their southern protestant forefathers confirming this isn't so.
Anyway, ignoring my comment regarding Irish American culture, what I was suggesting is that towns which went Trump/Rep this election cycle might have distinctly separate motivations. To put it more clearly, speaking and observing locals in both towns I feel confident that the motivations in Sterling were largely based on tax and regulation policies - policies which have real tangible benefits tied to these voters. Given that few of the unionized working class voters in Bridgewater who voted for Trump would benefit from his tax policies or deregulation, I assume their motivations were rooted elsewhere. I'm implying that motivation might to be more closely tied to the alt-right movement.
Bridgewater of course also has BSU places with universities tend to be a bit liberal but it depends where in the country.
To be frank though it isn't exactly rich and poor being democrats. It's kinda more along if the local government can run itself.
Gateway cities are pretty much democratic and for the most part are dependent on the state for their revenue. Upper income areas can also be democratic, however that tends to be more of the limousine type. Those that are affluent and vote democrat basically want the government to be one stop shopping. They want to technically "help" but would rather raise and pay more in taxes then to shop for endless non profits..
Places in the middle are technically screwed. They aren't poorer like a gateway city and they aren't rich enough to vote in tax increases. So...they bicker or simply do without.
I can understand not wanting to fund things on a federal or state level. But when it is local..it's just hard to debate.
I wouldn't make the argument that Catholics somehow vote Republican. Western Mass is WAYYY more religious than eastern. It's like going back in time 20-30 years. Basically when waves of immigrants came over they all happened to be Catholic. Irish, French Canadian, German, Puerto Rican etc. as a result churches stayed fuller longer. The City of Springfield has dealt with the Archdioceses quite a bit. I can't really see the same level in other gateway cities. After the scandals broke in 2002 that's when many stopped attending (myself included).
As for "alt right" don't call it that. That term would legitimize it. Get the DeLorean to 88 mph and go back to the preinternet days. Shortwave radio and BBS's were largely where some of this would tend to lurk. I have a number of confirmation reports (QSL's) from around the world. Domestic shortwave was..different (not to suggest that all shortwave was/is like this WBCQ is comical/college radio like for the most part) WWCR - RationalWiki
I'd recommend this book as well. https://www.amazon.com/Them-Adventur.../dp/0743233212
Any group is bound to have divisions and potentially extremists on both sides within it. The sierra club at one point had a division about immigration.
Some people think things not so much about what they heard but a lack of hearing anything else. The book Harvest of Rage made arguments about hearing of the 80's farm crisis along with BCCI, Iran Contra, JFK and they get to odd conclusions. Compounding being the factor. Just as in Kentucky dental care is not the best. Exposure to coal emissions, lack of fluoride, drinking well water, high soda and hard alcohol consumption caused 10% of the population to have no teeth.
Getting back to the topic the other issue is frankly what other choices did people have? Hillary was not exactly an optimal choice and her baggage was not only obvious but it was excessive. I'm not saying I'd vote for him but Bernie had no baggage but the DNC wanted Hillary because she's be more "electable" yeah about that.
Most people in Mass are independents. Democrats control much of government and they will continue to do so but they cannot take the citizens for granted. It's impossible to suggest those in charge are somehow not responsible. Being rude can easily cause people to lose (John Silber anyone?) or just not campaigning (Coakley).
We're going to have to agree to disagree. I implied the Bridgewaters going Trump was, in part, due to a persistent working class catholic culture which has historically supported ideas of classism based on color. I do not believe most are practicing Catholics, nor is it important. What is important is that their father's father's father was persecuted for being a practicing Catholic and, generations later, these men are still fighting a misguided status war.
I'm very aware genealogy does not alone determine racial views, which is why I never stated that anglo culture is immune to racism - modern white nationalists are still pushing the agenda of their southern protestant forefathers confirming this isn't so.
Anyway, ignoring my comment regarding Irish American culture, what I was suggesting is that towns which went Trump/Rep this election cycle might have distinctly separate motivations. To put it more clearly, speaking and observing locals in both towns I feel confident that the motivations in Sterling were largely based on tax and regulation policies - policies which have real tangible benefits tied to these voters. Given that few of the unionized working class voters in Bridgewater who voted for Trump would benefit from his tax policies or deregulation, I assume their motivations were rooted elsewhere. I'm implying that motivation might to be more closely tied to the alt-right movement.
I think that you have it all wrong. Catholics don't vote Republican. Even though they retain a stronger stance on current morality pushes the national agendas of different churches does not set the vote. Massachusetts actually has the highest Catholic percentage in the nation. Yet, it votes Democrat.
You picked towns that have dying Catholic churches. Plus, these towns have Catholic churches with lots of 1st generation immigrants. You also selected places which traditionally had large English groupings and did not feature massive Irish movements in the 1960s. You selected the areas that have the northwards Portuguese push. Brazilian Steakhouses are in the area as well.
The anti-Catholic thing rings of an ancient English superiority complex. It doesn't make sense.
You are trying to pin down the populace based on ethnic grouping. When not successful at first, then you switch to your perception of which religion is practiced by the ethnic group.
Scary.
Another poster hit it on the head. The people that went Kiskakeedee Coffee in Plymouth to see Republican candidates were the ones with a sincere belief in the small government as a matter of policy. They saw candidates that you would probably "approve."
This state still has newspapers with the word "Republican" on their frontpage. I think that you should consider that the Republican party was the one that pushed for equality and tried to open the South for 25 years. Republican justices gave you things such as Miranda rights and Roe v. Wade. Earl Warren which set the tone for the years to follow was a Republican.
So, I also don't think that you understand the Republican concepts and why someone would consider Republican.
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